Venezuela news

[SuburbanFarmer]

Not every nation whose economy fails happens to be communist, but every communist nation's economy fails.
It's time to stop going to a well that has never had any water in it, hoping that this time it just might.
That's just common sense.

China. Vietnam. There are others.

[StCapps]

I keep saying, it's about power & control. If you're a loser under the old rules, change the rules. Doesn't make ANY difference what the rules are.

The best way to reform such a system is to have the establishment change the rules to benefit themselves, but do so in a way that is more inclusive of certain important groups of outsiders. Important groups of outsiders overthrowing the old establishment and replacing it with a new establishment that excludes the old establishment from the new establishment, rarely goes well by comparison.

[Martin Hash]

I agree but that takes educating the Old Establishment about the problem, but I can't even convince the aristocracy-supporters on this forum, you included.

[StCapps]

Not every nation whose economy fails happens to be communist, but every communist nation's economy fails.
It's time to stop going to a well that has never had any water in it, hoping that this time it just might.
That's just common sense.

China. Vietnam. There are others.

Just wait on them. They will fail eventually to, unless they change their commie ways. The well never had any water in it, China isn't rising economically because of communist economic policies, they are rising because they are becoming more free market, not less. Communism holds them back, it is not propelling them forward.

[heydaralon]

Maybe Sean Penn and Oliver Stone have some great economic advice that will lift Venezuela out of the sewer. Those two faggots went up to bat for Chavez as much as they could, they should be going on tv and defending the fruits of his labor.

[heydaralon]

Not every nation whose economy fails happens to be communist, but every communist nation's economy fails.
It's time to stop going to a well that has never had any water in it, hoping that this time it just might.
That's just common sense.

China. Vietnam. There are others.

China has been attempting a hybrid economy since Deng Xiaopeng. They are still repressive politically, and their economy is massively interfered with by the government, but it is not really run in a Marxist way. The Faustian bargain Chinese citizens make with their government is that they are allowed to pursue wealth in their private lives, but they cannot question the government in any way. It is an interesting political experiment, and its success remains to be seen.I am in no way trying to imply that China is not an embarrassing disgusting shithole (it absolutely is). What I'm saying is that it has kept the founding mantle of Communism, while pragmatically using market forces when it is politically expedient. If you want to see how real Marxism worked in China, read Mao's Great Famine by Frank Dikoetter. 45 million dead. Of course, thats nothing compared to the sheer amount of people who died from Joseph McCarthy and his brutal crackdown on Hollywood, or Meryl Streep's brave struggle against the twitter brownshirt trolls.

[jbird4049]

Not every nation whose economy fails happens to be communist, but every communist nation's economy fails.
It's time to stop going to a well that has never had any water in it, hoping that this time it just might.
That's just common sense.

China. Vietnam. There are others.

China has been attempting a hybrid economy since Deng Xiaopeng. They are still repressive politically, and their economy is massively interfered with by the government, but it is not really run in a Marxist way. The Faustian bargain Chinese citizens make with their government is that they are allowed to pursue wealth in their private lives, but they cannot question the government in any way. It is an interesting political experiment, and its success remains to be seen.I am in no way trying to imply that China is not an embarrassing disgusting shithole (it absolutely is). What I'm saying is that it has kept the founding mantle of Communism, while pragmatically using market forces when it is politically expedient. If you want to see how real Marxism worked in China, read Mao's Great Famine by Frank Dikoetter. 45 million dead. Of course, thats nothing compared to the sheer amount of people who died from Joseph McCarthy and his brutal crackdown on Hollywood, or Meryl Streep's brave struggle against the twitter brownshirt trolls.

There is the French/American/Vietnamese/Cambodian forty year death match of revolts, invasions, and civil wars ostensibly about democracy, and free markets, but really started when, unlike the British with their Indian Raj, the French didn't want to accept that their Indochinese colonial empire was finished.

FDR was refusing to offer the French any help and Ho Chi Minh was actually trying to go full on Democratic and tried to enlist American support. Then FDR dies and Ho Chi Min is smeared as a Soviet puppet by the French.

We can also go to the Spanish Civil War wear the Nationalists under General Franco overthrew the elected government in part because the wealthy landowners( their 1%) wanted to keep all the land and the Catholic Church wanted to maintain their political and social power which included running the schools. Plenty of deaths there.

Also, almost every single war in the Americas during the 20th century was caused by the wealthy oligarchs and business interests, often international, as anarchists, communist, socialist Godless radicals wanting to keep all the wealth, and political power, to themselves. The American military was often often used to crush the reformers, revolutionaries, and radicals.

Does anyone notice a pattern? Those already in power because of their extreme wealth use social, political, legal, and military power to maintain their wealth. Most reformers in these wars started out as moderates, but when all paths to reform were blocked often with political assassinations, military interventions, or even full scale invasions, the moderates lose influence, if not just murdered. The survivors become radicalized because the wealthy, those in power, support capitalist free markets often at the expense of the rule of law, and always at the welfare of almost all of society.

It's interesting to see supporters of free market capitalist or of communism or of socialism blame the economic systems while ignoring the political repression, including the destruction of the rule of law and the concentration of political power into a few people, that was often justified by the need to defend an economic system free the others systems. The repressions discredits the very systems they are defending. I don't care what system is used if people are broken in its defense they will hate it.

[StCapps]

All economic systems are repressive, but some economic systems work better than others. Free market capitalism works better than most, so shitting on it as if it's one of the worst makes no sense.

[TheOneX]

Communism only works when you no longer have scarcity. If you can produce everything everyone wants and needs, only then will communism work. Until then regulated capitalism is the best way to maximize economic prosperity for the maximum amount of people.

[Martin Hash]

Could be, except for the totalitarian aspect of socialism. No one can predict the future.