What's going on in India?

[Smitty-48]

It's like I went to CANSEC, which is the big military expo in Canada, and I talked to the Lockheed Martin guys, they were all ex military, I told them I was a Lockheed Martin shareholder, next thing you know we are all down at the bar talking military shit, and they are insisting on buying the rounds.

Fuckin' great buncha guys, old school all Americans, Lockheed Martin treats me well, in all respects.

[Smitty-48]

In fact, one guy there was so senior, he said that if I wanted to meet with Marillyn Hewson, he could have that arranged, so I took his card.

[StCapps]

StA getting shot down in this thread like he's an F-15 going up against an F-35. We get it dude, you're an F-15 fanboi, who has no good arguments whatsoever and only have Mother Jones talking points.

You can't shoot,
What you can't see.
Float like butterfly,
Sting like a bee.

Facts:
-It's easier for an F-35 to spot a F-15 than it is for an F-15 to spot an F-35.
-It's easier for F-35 to shoot at an F-15 without being spotted than it is for an F-15 to shoot at an F-35 without being spotted.
-Being able to see your opponent before they can see you, and shooting first, that is what wins aerial engagements these days, not dogfights.

There isn't going to be a dogfight, and dogfighting is not necessary to maintain air superiority. The best air superiority fighters are not the best dogfighters anymore, you are living in the past maan, when missiles we're a lot shittier, and dogfighting actually mattered, it doesn't anymore.

Dogfights are in fact so rare now, and will be ever rarer in the future, that focusing on being able to see the enemy before they see you, is a much better idea, and dogfighting capabilities are pretty far back on the list of priorities.

[Smitty-48]

So tru, because a dogfight is all about having to get behind the other guy to shoot him, first with guns, then with the early guided missiles. But with the missiles they have now, you can shoot at a guy without even turning, you just look at him through the visor and shoot. That's how the MiG-21 shot down the F-16.

There's no way an F-15 could have escaped that neither, the F-15 would just provide that missile with a bigger target, could not miss.

[StCapps]

Aerial combat hasn't worked the way that is portrayed in Top Gun for a while now, but StA is too busing huffing the nostalgia paint and sucking the F-15's cock to notice.

[Smitty-48]

That MiG-21 did get shot down tho, so here's what F-35 could do which that MiG could not, shoot forwards and backwards at the same time, the F-35 could have engaged the first F-16 with one missile, while shooting two more over the shoulder at the two F-16's turning in behind, to at least force them defensive so the F-35 could get out of Dodge.

Extend, roll back in, wash rinse repeat.

[Speaker to Animals]

Aerial combat hasn't worked the way that is portrayed in Top Gun for a while now, but StA is too busing huffing the nostalgia paint and sucking the F-15's cock to notice.

Neither of you know what the fuck you are talking about and straw manning my position cannot save your argument from destruction.

This has nothing to do with your silly notions of "aerial combat". It is about a sub-par performing aircraft with no redundancy and shit chances of survival in fifth generation combat. It is also about the fact that for anything we would realistically use these lawn darts, an F-15X would do better and more cost effectively.

It is about the fact that the F-35 cannot even fly across the God damned ocean without refuel and in many environments is not safely operated due to having only one God damned engine.

Neither of you bozos understand what the fuck you are talking about.

[Smitty-48]

Reality is tho, F-35 wouldn't have attacked that formation the way the MiG-21 did, because the F-35 could just slip around behind the Paks undetected, and then just shoot them all at once in the back, without them even knowing what had killed them.

[StCapps]

Aerial combat hasn't worked the way that is portrayed in Top Gun for a while now, but StA is too busing huffing the nostalgia paint and sucking the F-15's cock to notice.

Neither of you know what the fuck you are talking about and straw manning my position cannot save your argument from destruction.

This has nothing to do with your silly notions of "aerial combat". It is about a sub-par performing aircraft with no redundancy and shit chances of survival in fifth generation combat. It is also about the fact that for anything we would realistically use these lawn darts, an F-15X would do better and more cost effectively.

It is about the fact that the F-35 cannot even fly across the God damned ocean without refuel and in many environments is not safely operated due to having only one God damned engine.

Neither of you bozos understand what the fuck you are talking about.

Dude the F-35's performance metrics don't even vary that much from the F-22 you champion as the pinnacle of performance. Even by the metrics you cherrypick, the F-35 is far from subpar.

You can't talk about how great Raptor is because of it's performance metrics and then shit on Panther, as if it isn't the next best thing, when it clearly is the next best thing.

Go home, you're drunk.

[Smitty-48]

And because of EODAS, the F-35's don't need a wingman to watch their back, so they don't need to fly in tight formation, so they can spread out over a wide area, and shoot from the shadows from all directions at once.

F-22 can't do it, still need to fly Raptors in formation.