Daniel Shaver shooting

[Speaker to Animals]

We all know he deserves to die for what he did. The purpose of the criminal justice system is to create an impartial system of dealing with this without the killings in which everybody is equal before the law. But when it consistently fails to do that, people will lose faith and they WILL eventually begin to take matters into their own hands.

[heydaralon]

Yeah, well, if you are that much of a coward, please stay out of American law enforcement. We have too many power-tripping cowards as it is. Not that I think this cunt killed an innocent man because he genuinely felt fear. I think he planned to kill that Daniel Shaver and Daniel Shaver was fucked no matter what he did (hence the bizarre commands such as "cross your legs and crawl to me on your knees with your hands in the air"). Those commands were capricious and given with the intent that Daniel Shaver would fail and Officer Simon Says would then murder him. The prosecutor was right to bring murder charges against this psychopath and everybody here knows that little cunt deserves death absent a functioning justice system.

Yeah this cop seems like a major pussy. He was wearing body armor and carrying an AR 15 with a scope, plus he had backup and he still felt the need to shoot an unarmed sobbing man because he got scared. What a pitiful faggot. Sorry dude, you get an awesome pension a good salaried job and you get to tote a rifle around and pretend you are a badass, yet you are incapable of handling this situation properly out of fear. What a fucking joke.

[Smitty-48]

I wasn't a cop, all my training in this regard was for immediate action hostage rescue/high value target kill-capture, but we were trained to treat everybody as a potential terrorist, until they were verified as being otherwise, everybody gets rough handled, because you don't know who is who, and the terrorists do attempt to hide amongst the hostages, you don't take anything for granted, and that's not just about you not being killed, that's also about protecting the hostages, so they obviously got it into their minds that Shaver was the threat, and maybe they thought the chick was the bystander/hostage.

[heydaralon]

I wasn't a cop, all my training in this regard was for immediate action hostage rescue/high value target kill-capture, but we were trained to treat everybody as a potential terrorist, until they were verified as being otherwise, everybody gets rough handled, because you don't know who is who, and the terrorists do attempt to hide amongst the hostages, you don't take anything for granted, and that's not just about you not being killed, that's also about protecting the hostages, so they obviously got it into their minds that Shaver was the threat, and they thought the chick was the bystander/hostage.

Why the weird commands? They made no fucking sense.

[tue4t]

Ok yea that definitely makes sense with the traps and killzones - the cops couldn't possibly have any idea how many people they were dealing with.

But man, those youtube comments scare me more than the existence of trigger happy cowboy police

[heydaralon]

Ok yea that definitely makes sense with the traps and killzones - the cops couldn't possibly have any idea how many people they were dealing with.

But man, those youtube comments scare me more than the existence of trigger happy cowboy police

That could happen to cops at any given time though. What if that old lady having a seizure in the parking lot is actually just bait for the cops to show up as a sniper picks them off? Better use lethal force on her too. These dudes volunteered for this shit. This guy put you're fucked on his rifle like he is this hardened assassin, but when he got into a remotely tense situation he shit the bed and shot a guy when he had superiority in numbers, body armor, a rifle pointed directly at him etc. There isn't a situation where LEO's can eliminate all danger. There is always a risk however small, when you cuff or arrest somebody. The question is, was reducing the risk from a small percentage to an even smaller percentage worth a taxpayer getting shot over? In this case, I don't think so.

[Smitty-48]

I wasn't a cop, all my training in this regard was for immediate action hostage rescue/high value target kill-capture, but we were trained to treat everybody as a potential terrorist, until they were verified as being otherwise, everybody gets rough handled, because you don't know who is who, and the terrorists do attempt to hide amongst the hostages, you don't take anything for granted, and that's not just about you not being killed, that's also about protecting the hostages, so they obviously got it into their minds that Shaver was the threat, and they thought the chick was the bystander/hostage.

Why the weird commands? They made no fucking sense.

Well, if you think you've just walked into a madman set to go on a rampage, the adrenaline hits your bloodstream then, and that can cause them to panic, I don't know, it seems to me like he was panicked and botching the takedown, that's manslaughter perhaps, but murder is a higher bar to prove.

At 4:26, when the cop shouts "dont!" and then shoots, the guy does look like he could be drawing a gun, and you can't see his hand to know that he isn't, that's why the cop told him not to go behind his back with his hands again, because he had already done that once, so he's got it in his mind that this guy wants to reach behind his back for something, and what would that something be? If you think it's Charles Whitman, you don't think he's reaching for a banana there.

[heydaralon]

I wasn't a cop, all my training in this regard was for immediate action hostage rescue/high value target kill-capture, but we were trained to treat everybody as a potential terrorist, until they were verified as being otherwise, everybody gets rough handled, because you don't know who is who, and the terrorists do attempt to hide amongst the hostages, you don't take anything for granted, and that's not just about you not being killed, that's also about protecting the hostages, so they obviously got it into their minds that Shaver was the threat, and they thought the chick was the bystander/hostage.

Why the weird commands? They made no fucking sense.

Well, if you think you've just walked into a madman set to go on a rampage, the adrenaline hits your bloodstream then, and that can cause them to panic, I don't know, it seems to me like he was panicked and botching the takedown, that's manslaughter perhaps, but murder is a higher bar to prove.

I'm not arguing that this was premeditated or anything like that. I have no idea what was going on in the cops mind. I also don't know how I would react in that situation if I were the cop. But here's the thing. I didn't enthusiastically volunteer for it either like the officer in question. This cop thinks he's a movie character, except he didn't encounter kilmer or deniro in heat. He encountered a sobbing man in his underwear. Could the situation have been dangerous? Sure. Are all encounters the police have potentially dangerous? Absolutely. Is that part of being a cop? Definitely. Should people who can't handle that be cops? No. I'm sure the adrenaline was pumping, but that doesn't change the fact that this officer made a tense situation even worse, and basically cracked under a slight amount of pressure. I'm not claiming I could do a better job, but our police force ain't run on a draft. You signed up for this and promoted yourself while getting taken care of financially, you should face the full force of the consequences, including an irate public when you behave in a cowardly and foolish manner.

The ridiculous and seemingly contradictory commands were bad enough, but then unloading his mag into this guy for drunkenly fallen over is some next level extra chromsome behavior.

[LVH2]

I'm reasonably certain that convenience store clerks can't get away with shooting people because they think maybe, possibly when they pulled up their pants, they could perhaps have been going for an unseen gun at which point there was some chance that they wouldn't get the first shot off, and then maybe the first shot would have hit them.

That's simply not true, if the convenience store clerk was attempting to arrest a person in the store, and that person made a sudden move which appeared to be going for a gun, American juries would acquit, you can use a gun to defend yourself in America, and so long as the jury believes that you did not have the mens rea, the guilty mind to commit murder, they won't convict you of murder.

Property owners or their proxies, are given the benefit of the doubt as much as the police are, in fact, property owners arguably have even broader latitude than the police. Hell, in Texas, you can shoot a man for taking socks off your wash line, while he's running away.

I could be wrong, but I think the clerk would need some fairly compelling evidence that the guy was, say, trying to rob him. He couldn't have just heard about some robberies in the area then pulled a gun on an unarmed guy, then shot the guy as he was complying and begging for his life because he pulled up his pants.

In this case, the police heard no gunfire, saw no gun, no dead bodies, no people running around screaming. I don't think the police should assume they are dealing with Charles Witman and his hidden accomplices in such a situation. Probably better to assume that, with no signs of anything else afoot, the guy sobbing and trying to comply is a random dude who doesn't want to be the 1,000th person killed by cops this year.

[LVH2]

Why the weird commands? They made no fucking sense.

Well, if you think you've just walked into a madman set to go on a rampage, the adrenaline hits your bloodstream then, and that can cause them to panic, I don't know, it seems to me like he was panicked and botching the takedown, that's manslaughter perhaps, but murder is a higher bar to prove.

I'm not arguing that this was premeditated or anything like that. I have no idea what was going on in the cops mind. I also don't know how I would react in that situation if I were the cop. But here's the thing. I didn't enthusiastically volunteer for it either like the officer in question. This cop thinks he's a movie character, except he didn't encounter kilmer or deniro in heat. He encountered a sobbing man in his underwear. Could the situation have been dangerous? Sure. Are all encounters the police have potentially dangerous? Absolutely. Is that part of being a cop? Definitely. Should people who can't handle that be cops? No. I'm sure the adrenaline was pumping, but that doesn't change the fact that this officer made a tense situation even worse, and basically cracked under a slight amount of pressure. I'm not claiming I could do a better job, but our police force ain't run on a draft. You signed up for this and promoted yourself while getting taken care of financially, you should face the full force of the consequences, including an irate public when you behave in a cowardly and foolish manner.

The ridiculous and seemingly contradictory commands were bad enough, but then unloading his mag into this guy for drunkenly fallen over is some next level extra chromsome behavior.

With the writing on the gun, you could argue that it was premeditated in the same way a spree killing is. You could argue that this guy was out to kill SOMEONE during his tenure, quite possibly more than one.