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StCapps
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by StCapps » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:07 pm

*yip*

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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:12 pm

Like on the one hand Ike is lauded for his MICC speech.

But on the other hand he is the cause.

He is the one who has concocted the justification for the massive expansion.

Which he then laments as if he was just a bystander.
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:18 pm

Eisenhower's MICC speech is like George W. Bush lamenting the GWOT.
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by StCapps » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:19 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:18 pm
Eisenhower's MICC speech is like George W. Bush lamenting the GWOT.
Indeed he knew the MICC so well, because he pumped it full of steroids.
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:23 pm

StCapps wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:19 pm
Smitty-48 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:18 pm
Eisenhower's MICC speech is like George W. Bush lamenting the GWOT.
Indeed he knew the MICC so well, because he pumped it full of steroids.
Thing is, he apparently thought that the Soviet threat was overblown.

But he didn't come out and tell Americans that.

He thought one thing in private, but then said another in public.

To a certain extent he resisted MICC boondoggles, but mostly for fiscal reasons.

He wasn't opposed to an MICC build up, he just complained about the cost.
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by StCapps » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:25 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:23 pm
Thing is, he apparently thought that the Soviet threat was overblown.

But he didn't come out and tell Americans that.

He thought one thing in private, but then said another in public.
Much to chagrin of Tricky Dick, who really could have used Ike calling JFK out on the "missile gap" bullshit.
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:31 pm

StCapps wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:25 pm
Smitty-48 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:23 pm
Thing is, he apparently thought that the Soviet threat was overblown.

But he didn't come out and tell Americans that.

He thought one thing in private, but then said another in public.
Much to chagrin of Tricky Dick, who really could have used Ike calling JFK out on the "missile gap" bullshit.
Oh Nixon idolized Eisenhower. Nixon was in awe of him. Supreme Allied Commander.

Before Missile Gap it was Bomber Gap.

Now, Eisenhower was skeptical, but he didn't really know, this is why he ordered the CIA to build the U-2.

The U-2 was originally built to find out how many Bison bombers the Soviets actually had.

Which was 4. But the estimate given to Eisenhower was 800.
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:39 pm

The greatness of Nixon was that by the time he was President, he was no longer in awe of anybody.

Nixon was his own man with his own plan.

Eisenhower approached the Cold War as if it was inevitable, permanent, and monolithic, immutable.

Nixon was out to win the war.

Nixon was out to get play the Soviets and Chinese off one another to divide and conquer.

Which he did.

Then Reagan got all the credit.
Last edited by Smitty-48 on Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by StCapps » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:40 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:31 pm
StCapps wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:25 pm
Smitty-48 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:23 pm
Thing is, he apparently thought that the Soviet threat was overblown.

But he didn't come out and tell Americans that.

He thought one thing in private, but then said another in public.
Much to chagrin of Tricky Dick, who really could have used Ike calling JFK out on the "missile gap" bullshit.
Oh Nixon idolized Eisenhower. Nixon was in awe of him. Supreme Allied Commander.

Before Missile Gap it was Bomber Gap.

Now, Eisenhower was skeptical, but he didn't really know, this is why he ordered the CIA to build the U-2.

The U-2 was originally built to find out how many Bison bombers the Soviets actually had.

Which was 4. But the estimate given to Eisenhower was 800.
If Eisenhower had aired his skepticism in public, that would have helped Nixon in 1960. As you say, it might have actually done Nixon a favor, as he was better equipped to be a good President in 1968 than 1960, but not sure Nixon saw it that way when he lost to JFK.
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Re: Prosecute Tom Hanks ("I know what love is!")

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:43 pm

StCapps wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:40 pm
Smitty-48 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:31 pm
StCapps wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:25 pm
Much to chagrin of Tricky Dick, who really could have used Ike calling JFK out on the "missile gap" bullshit.
Oh Nixon idolized Eisenhower. Nixon was in awe of him. Supreme Allied Commander.

Before Missile Gap it was Bomber Gap.

Now, Eisenhower was skeptical, but he didn't really know, this is why he ordered the CIA to build the U-2.

The U-2 was originally built to find out how many Bison bombers the Soviets actually had.

Which was 4. But the estimate given to Eisenhower was 800.
If Eisenhower had aired his skepticism in public, that would have helped Nixon in 1960.
Would it? I don't think so.

You have to factor in that back then the media were constantly beating the war drums and working the public up into a frenzy.

If you came out and said the Soviets weren't ten feet tall, they would have turned on you as being a Commie Stooge.

This is how Kennedy won, he exploited that, he went super hawk and made the GOP out to be the doves.

Nixon was pretty much neutralized on his anti-communist bona fides, because Kennedy made sure he was so hawkish that Nixon couldn't play that card.
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