What Is More to Blame (Looking Back)

[Okeefenokee]

I'd argue that the millenia of Catholic Church rule held humanity back by centuries. Blaming the Reformation for lifting the lid on our progress doesn't really make sense.

and you'd be just as dumb as ever in doing so.

[GloryofGreece]

I think in some ways the uber organization and technique of the Church was in some ways both the cause of its own destruction and part of what was "wrong" with religion in the first place. Its that technique that allows organizations to flourish and become more "efficient" but efficiency really isn't synonymous with spirituality or grace etc. Eventually the Church was almost bound to rebel against itself. But while it was at its height it appears to have a decent counter measure to the ambitions of Kings around Europe.

[Speaker to Animals]

I'll leave this right here..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_(Aristotle)

[Speaker to Animals]

I think in some ways the uber organization and technique of the Church was in some ways both the cause of its own destruction and part of what was "wrong" with religion in the first place. Its that technique that allows organizations to flourish and become more "efficient" but efficiency really isn't synonymous with spirituality or grace etc. Eventually the Church was almost bound to rebel against itself. But while it was at its height it appears to have a decent counter measure to the ambitions of Kings around Europe.

There's nothing efficient about the Church.

[GloryofGreece]

I think in some ways the uber organization and technique of the Church was in some ways both the cause of its own destruction and part of what was "wrong" with religion in the first place. Its that technique that allows organizations to flourish and become more "efficient" but efficiency really isn't synonymous with spirituality or grace etc. Eventually the Church was almost bound to rebel against itself. But while it was at its height it appears to have a decent counter measure to the ambitions of Kings around Europe.

There's nothing efficient about the Church.

The Society of Jesus/ Ignatius and Cardinal Richelieu would disagree. Those men and their apparatus created the modern state.

[GloryofGreece]

The printing press did to the Church then what internet does to the MSM today.

Will anything good come of it, did anything really unequivocally "good" come from what the printing press did to the Church?

Only everything developed in the west since. Some personal favorites:

Universal suffrage and parliamentarism.

Modern medicine with antibiotics and vaccines.

Freedom of speech and the press.

Automobiles

Airplanes

Modern agriculture

Diplomacy

Semi conductors

The scientific method

Calculus

The novel

Cinema

Internet

Fine tooling and modern metallurgy

Mechanics of materials

Genetics

Political science

Radio and television

I could go on but I'll leave it here. All that comes out of the enlightened west and there is nothing to suggest it would have been developed somewhere else otherwise.

Those things didn't come from the invention of the press. What good did? Increased literacy, thats about it from my vantage point.

[ssu]

Those things didn't come from the invention of the press. What good did? Increased literacy, thats about it from my vantage point.

At least the printing press, the method of making cheap books in large quantity was extremely important. Simple truth is that if books would have to be hand written, there wouldn't be so many of them.

No other way of spreading and keeping information as the printed book before computers.

I'll leave this right here..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_(Aristotle)

Do note that politics and political science are usually viewed as two different things.

[Speaker to Animals]

Those things didn't come from the invention of the press. What good did? Increased literacy, thats about it from my vantage point.

At least the printing press, the method of making cheap books in large quantity was extremely important. Simple truth is that if books would have to be hand written, there wouldn't be so many of them.

No other way of spreading and keeping information as the printed book before computers.

I'll leave this right here..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_(Aristotle)

Do note that politics and political science are usually viewed as two different things.

Do note that book is literally political science.

[Fife]

Those things didn't come from the invention of the press. What good did? Increased literacy, thats about it from my vantage point.

At least the printing press, the method of making cheap books in large quantity was extremely important. Simple truth is that if books would have to be hand written, there wouldn't be so many of them.

No other way of spreading and keeping information as the printed book before computers.

I'll leave this right here..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_(Aristotle)

Do note that politics and political science are usually viewed as two different things.

Yeah puters! Fuck dem books!

[ssu]

Political Science is a social science which deals with systems of governance, and the analysis of political activities, political thoughts and political behaviour

Hence note that with political science you usually are talking about one part of social sciences. And social science itself?

The history of the social sciences begins in the Age of Enlightenment after 1650, which saw a revolution within natural philosophy, changing the basic framework by which individuals understood what was "scientific". Social sciences came forth from the moral philosophy of the time and were influenced by the Age of Revolutions, such as the Industrial Revolution and the French Revolution.[1] The social sciences developed from the sciences (experimental and applied), or the systematic knowledge-bases or prescriptive practices, relating to the social improvement of a group of interacting entities.

Hence, you had politics well before political science.