College Park decides Tuesday whether to allow noncitizens to vote

[Martin Hash]

Democracy is the selection method most suited to liberty because I make my own decisions and my vote is relatively worth the same as yours. Citizenship & practicing liberty aren't the same thing. A bunch of people in an auditorium deciding on whether to turn the heat up or down doesn't depend on the citizenship of the people in the auditorium, just that they are the ones affected by it.

p.s. If your argument is that people outside the auditorium are voting then okay but once someone is inside the auditorium, they're just as important as anyone else.

Interesting.

Would you run your company that way?
Instead of shareholders voting on decisions, everyone in the company gets an equal vote?
Some dude holds 30% of the shares, but the opinion of two part time janitors carry twice the weight?

A business is built on the construct of a polite society. I can only be discriminatory in my business because State Violence will intercede on my behalf. If I was some Joe Shareholder in chaos, the first looter to come along would take my shares. People only hand over their Right of Violence to The State because they have a say, in our case, democracy. So at the root, if you don't want people to exercise their own Right to Violence then you have to let them in on the decision-making.

[Fife]

[TheReal_ND]

[Martin Hash]

Most-liberty-to-most-people is only possible in a secure environment. Security can only be had if everyone agrees to comply. People will only comply if they 1) are forced to comply, 2) voluntarily comply. The much stronger side can unilaterally pick #1, but #2 requires compromising with the other side. Often, something as simple as representation, in the form of voting, is all that is needed to get their acquiescence.

p.s. At the extreme end, BLM or Antifa, for example, they want more than representation, they want reparations, which violates the liberty rule. They are going to require #1.

[TheReal_ND]

Do you have a source for #2? A single citation in the thousands of years of democracy, minus the thousands of years without it of course?

[TheReal_ND]

I mean, not to shit on your concept because I'm not even sure what you are talking about, but you sound like some sort of meme right now. I need some clarification here.

• the state is violence
  society only works under violence
  except when people eschew the state in favor of a lack of society

• and then magically everything just works because egalitarianism

[Fife]

It's OK, bro... my google translate is not currently picking up on "shroom" language either. I might try back later.

[TheReal_ND]

I'm just not big brained enough to understand how letting people that aren't citizens vote is a representive democracy.

[Okeefenokee]

Democracy is the selection method most suited to liberty because I make my own decisions and my vote is relatively worth the same as yours. Citizenship & practicing liberty aren't the same thing. A bunch of people in an auditorium deciding on whether to turn the heat up or down doesn't depend on the citizenship of the people in the auditorium, just that they are the ones affected by it.

p.s. If your argument is that people outside the auditorium are voting then okay but once someone is inside the auditorium, they're just as important as anyone else.

I'm waiting to hear what happens when, rather than voting on the thermostat setting, they are voting on a person who gets to exclusively control the thermostat for the next 4 years... and then a few months later they're all noticing the auditorium is at a sweltering 95-degrees and realize the person they voted for owns stock in a local utility company that's selling heating fuel/electricity to the auditorium at inflated (graft/corruption) prices letting both of them profit nicely off the con job on the electors... they naturally voted for the auditorium thermostat nominee who offered them a "free" dollar each for their vote. Oh, and because of the increased heating cost they all have to pay a 50-cent a day tax the new "elected official" created to help pay the heating bill on the auditorium.

I know you were being sarcastic but consider your scenario another way:
Everyone has a price, sweltering heat would be unanimous at the right price, and even if only 51% were bribed, that's still a majority. Even without bribes, if 51% thought it was too cold, the other 49% would still be unhappy. If a dictator took over, well I assume they have the 2nd Amendment, so unless the dictator has over half, s/he's going down, if s/he does have over half, then s/he's NOT a dictator, s/he's elected. And if the temperature selected by democracy doesn't suit you, leave.

I miss the days when people knew they could just write HE and assume the rest of us would understand it wasn't sexism, but simply made the prose flow better.

[Okeefenokee]

It's been a long time, so I'll restate my position.

1) A WALL (or just Trump-like rhetoric, that's doing almost as good as a wall). If you're here, citizenship.
or for people who just can't get over Illegals getting rewarded...
2) A WALL. It will take 50 years but Illegals will eventually die off. Any child born to an Illegal is a citizen by birthright, so problem solved.

The key to controlling Illegals is A WALL.

You just locked the doors to an auditorium full of angry, sweating people. And destroyed their food supply.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Remember the days before the immigration policy we adopted a couple decades ago when we were all starving because no one knew how to pick tomatoes until we realized the mexicans were genetically designed for it?

Fuck off.