HH60 - The Celtic Holocaust

[Speaker to Animals]

LOL ^^^

I hate my people so much.

[GloryofGreece]

Somebody's diluted and sensitive or doesn't have great reading comprehension or maybe just likes to troll but I think your too old for that. My avatar is Achilles and my senior paper was on Roman history, I'd say I have more love for Western Civilization than most. I also think Medieval Europe was a dreadful place to be in nearly every metric. And I also think the Aztec had just as many brutal and/or nasty cultural habits as well. So...

(BTW I agree with most of the posts I've read from you on here and the DCF) just confusing now.

[Speaker to Animals]

Lulz

Medieval Europe was a paradise compared to classical Europe.

[GloryofGreece]

Lulz

Medieval Europe was a paradise compared to classical Europe.

Remind us how Medieval England for example was a "paradise" for the common Englishman compared to the common Athenian, again?

[Speaker to Animals]

Lulz

Medieval Europe was a paradise compared to classical Europe.

Remind us how Medieval England for example was a "paradise" for the common Englishman compared to the common Athenian, again?

Longer lifespan. Better health. More economic opportunity. Great social and economic stability. Better access to education. Greater safety. Food surpluses. Are you fucking serious??

[TheReal_ND]

Neat arguments. Going to tune in now. Finished my weekly allotment of racist podcasts. Fuckers put half of them behind the paywal

[GloryofGreece]

Lulz

Medieval Europe was a paradise compared to classical Europe.

Remind us how Medieval England for example was a "paradise" for the common Englishman compared to the common Athenian, again?

Longer lifespan. Better health. More economic opportunity. Great social and economic stability. Better access to education. Greater safety. Food surpluses. Are you fucking serious??

Its a broad comparison either way I'll admit. And it obviously has a lot to do with what specific country/nation you live in, the exact time period, what that hypothetical person did for a living etc. but in general I think some of your claims are false, and it would be better to be a free commoner/farmer in Athens/Attica in 5th century than a free farmer in the 11th-14th centuries England, France, or German principality. Education was better or more accessible to common folk in the Medieval times? How was it safer? How was there more food? The Classical Athenians did not really run out of food often for its citizens. Are there stats for Englishmen in Kent or whatever hamlet/village in 11th-14th centuries? Post a link to lifespans? I call bullshit on your claims. Its subjective like most historical questions. But if your motivated some at least elaborate and share some studies, articles something?
http://www.hormones.gr/211/article/article.html

[Speaker to Animals]

Remind us how Medieval England for example was a "paradise" for the common Englishman compared to the common Athenian, again?

Longer lifespan. Better health. More economic opportunity. Great social and economic stability. Better access to education. Greater safety. Food surpluses. Are you fucking serious??

Its a broad comparison either way I'll admit. And it obviously has a lot to do with what specific country/nation you live in, the exact time period, what that hypothetical person did for a living etc. but in general I think some of your claims are false, and it would be better to be a free commoner/farmer in Athens/Attica in 5th century than a free farmer in the 11th-14th centuries England, France, or German principality. Education was better or more accessible to common folk in the Medieval times? How was it safer? How was there more food? The Classical Athenians did not really run out of food often for its citizens. Are there stats for Englishmen in Kent or whatever hamlet/village in 11th-14th centuries? Post a link to lifespans? I call bullshit on your claims. Its subjective like most historical questions. But if your motivated some at least elaborate and share some studies, articles something?
http://www.hormones.gr/211/article/article.html

Medieval period saw the rise of schools, universities, and hospitals. Those things didn't exist in antiquity. You had to go to a tutor if you wanted to learn something. Hospitals and greater hygiene brought about a cleaner society in general. Even serfs had more freedom and happiness than most free Athenian. "Freedom" is a nebulous term. Freedom from what? Starvation or somebody owning the surplus of your labor? A serf in a lot of ways had more freedom than the wage slaves of our own society. They at least had their own homes. They had far more time to spend with their families. They rarely went hungry. They lived in a stable community with far more social and interpersonal connections (a grossly underestimated ailment of our time, I might add).

Classical Greece was a violent, horrific place. City-states routinely warred one another, raping and murdering, when it was a season for war. Hell, most of the cities down in Lakonia had to make war against somebody each season simply to keep their infantry trained. They didn't always have Persians to kill, you know. It was a violent place. Even when it was a democracy, Athens was a horrible place to live, with rampant slavery and necessity that a medieval Englishmen would find revolting. Mob rule was violent and capricious. When they weren't turning on one another, they were exterminating or enslaving entire city states that wouldn't pay them tribute, or trying to subjugate entire regions like Sicily. Their greatest claim to fame was the rise of philosophy, but most of the philosophers, if you bother to read them, recoiled from Athenian society.

You might be operating under the Enlightenment era myth that the medieval period was a "dark age", which is totally untrue. What you argue doesn't really make any sense compared to the historical record. You were FAR better off living in medieval Europe than classical Europe.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I refuse to live in any time period without toilet paper and sewers.

[katarn]

Longer lifespan. Better health. More economic opportunity. Great social and economic stability. Better access to education. Greater safety. Food surpluses. Are you fucking serious??

Its a broad comparison either way I'll admit. And it obviously has a lot to do with what specific country/nation you live in, the exact time period, what that hypothetical person did for a living etc. but in general I think some of your claims are false, and it would be better to be a free commoner/farmer in Athens/Attica in 5th century than a free farmer in the 11th-14th centuries England, France, or German principality. Education was better or more accessible to common folk in the Medieval times? How was it safer? How was there more food? The Classical Athenians did not really run out of food often for its citizens. Are there stats for Englishmen in Kent or whatever hamlet/village in 11th-14th centuries? Post a link to lifespans? I call bullshit on your claims. Its subjective like most historical questions. But if your motivated some at least elaborate and share some studies, articles something?
http://www.hormones.gr/211/article/article.html

Medieval period saw the rise of schools, universities, and hospitals. Those things didn't exist in antiquity. You had to go to a tutor if you wanted to learn something. Hospitals and greater hygiene brought about a cleaner society in general. Even serfs had more freedom and happiness than most free Athenian. "Freedom" is a nebulous term. Freedom from what? Starvation or somebody owning the surplus of your labor? A serf in a lot of ways had more freedom than the wage slaves of our own society. They at least had their own homes. They had far more time to spend with their families. They rarely went hungry. They lived in a stable community with far more social and interpersonal connections (a grossly underestimated ailment of our time, I might add).

Classical Greece was a violent, horrific place. City-states routinely warred one another, raping and murdering, when it was a season for war. Hell, most of the cities down in Lakonia had to make war against somebody each season simply to keep their infantry trained. They didn't always have Persians to kill, you know. It was a violent place. Even when it was a democracy, Athens was a horrible place to live, with rampant slavery and necessity that a medieval Englishmen would find revolting. Mob rule was violent and capricious. When they weren't turning on one another, they were exterminating or enslaving entire city states that wouldn't pay them tribute, or trying to subjugate entire regions like Sicily. Their greatest claim to fame was the rise of philosophy, but most of the philosophers, if you bother to read them, recoiled from Athenian society.

You might be operating under the Enlightenment era myth that the medieval period was a "dark age", which is totally untrue. What you argue doesn't really make any sense compared to the historical record. You were FAR better off living in medieval Europe than classical Europe.

On the whole, I think I agree with you. How about we narrow the question though: Gibbon's Rome under the Antonines or medieval England?