Rigged: The Injustice of Corporate Welfare

[Speaker to Animals]

Also, change the incentive structure of welfare. Currently, it's dangerous for a welfare recipient to work part-time since they lose more than they can potentially gain. Furthermore, because the wages for unskilled labor are falling, and the number of jobs for such people does not match or exceed the numbers of unskilled laborers, there is no guarantee they can keep the job. These jobs are often temporary as well.

Let them work without losing the benefit for a while. But give them the vocational training they need to get a better job.

Maybe kick out the millions of illegal immigrants who are glutting the low-skilled labor market as well. You think that might be a factor here?

I mean.. fuck.. from my perspective, all of you are fucking wrong on this for one reason or another.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Everybody is right; everybody is also wrong.

The kind of theft described in the movie in the OP is NOT the same thing as "It's free; swipe yo EBT."

Not equivalent; a false equivalence.



There is a common thread, of course. Whenever the state gets involved in "helping," the outcome is human misery and violence. At best it's done with a kind heart, at worst it's done with malice and evil intent. Either way, the same people get reamed out.

Did you use such a pro-Communist meme on purpose you sly dawg you?

Now, enough with this fence sitting bull shite; declare a damn Official Thread Winner already!!!

[C-Mag]

This is one of those cases where I agree with StA. We have a system that actively penalizes people for trying to move from state dependency to gainful employment. As such, I have a hard time attacking the people who have made a living from perpetuating their dependency since it is their only realistic option.

I do not extend the same courtesy to corporations that would fail were it not for the largess of our tax code or bail-out packages.

YES, the system does penalize people trying get out of the Trap that StA talks about. The Trap itself is called The Poverty Bush, it includes White Trailer Trash and Black Ghettos, it's real, but it is also a social construct. One of the reasons people don't grow out of poverty is that they are ostracized within their social circle for doing it. It's the bucket of crabs analogy.

So we have two very strong factors here. The government system that penalizes you for upward mobility and a social construct that penalizes you as well. These two things together create generational poverty.

[C-Mag]

Also, change the incentive structure of welfare. Currently, it's dangerous for a welfare recipient to work part-time since they lose more than they can potentially gain. Furthermore, because the wages for unskilled labor are falling, and the number of jobs for such people does not match or exceed the numbers of unskilled laborers, there is no guarantee they can keep the job. These jobs are often temporary as well.

Let them work without losing the benefit for a while. But give them the vocational training they need to get a better job.

Maybe kick out the millions of illegal immigrants who are glutting the low-skilled labor market as well. You think that might be a factor here?

I mean.. fuck.. from my perspective, all of you are fucking wrong on this for one reason or another.

I get that^^^ and many of them work under the table too.
I have a good friend that does this, cooks in a bar. Almost got out, had a job in another state as a Culinary Instructor, then wife 3 cheated on him and divorced him while he was trying to create a future for his family. So, he moves back to the poverty bush to be able to be a part of his kids life. We need to recognize the governmental system arrayed against the poor, the social pressures and the individual personal responsibility. If my friend hadn't married 3 times, one kid with each he probably wouldn't be sucking off the system either.

[C-Mag]

It's really easy to look at the Lockheed Martin's who make Billions off Corporate Welfare, and size does matter. But to solve this issue we need to go after all Freeloaders, not just the group we can't personally identify with. Here's a list in every wealth bracket of freeloaders to some degree or another.

Lockheed Martin
Google
Facebook
Harvard
Yale
University of Tennessee
Hofstra University
Unions
Monsanto
Ag Subsidies Recipients
Disability recipients
Government Contractors
The Welfare Queen
The Illegal Alien receiving benefits

My point is, as long as with look at the other guy outside of our socio-economic circle and say, the big problem is there. We have no chance at fixing things. Our two parties have done a fantastic job getting us into the Us vs Them mentality.

[brewster]

Yay!! An actual civilized debate with thoughtful positions! I'm impressed. I wish this site had post votes, I'd give them to all of you. Well, almost all. I have no idea what ND is talking about calling this further enriching of the capitalists "socialism". When I posted last night it seemed all the previous posts were poo-pooing the whole notion of corporate welfare.

I do not extend the same courtesy to corporations that would fail were it not for the largess of our tax code or bail-out packages.

The thing is, many of these would NOT fail without help, they just get it because, why the fuck not if they can? As I said upthread, the cases I personally know best are developer deals. My area was once "blighted" and declared a redevelopment zone 30 years ago, but now it is white hot. Developers are no longer taking a risk building here, and no longer need incentives. Yet they've grown so accustomed to having their snouts in the trough, and the politicians as well, that the tax abatements and other goodies keep coming.

Ikea would not fail without it's goodies, it's just SOP now to wangle them, a normal part of doing business. Every time a NY area corporation needs a new headquarters, they basically run an auction between NY, NJ and CT to see who will pay them the most. You want a great example of the kind that would fail without handouts, and did anyway? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... eadowlands Christie was in this up to his man-boobs.

[C-Mag]

Yay!! An actual civilized debate with thoughtful positions! I'm impressed. I wish this site had post votes, I'd give them to all of you. Well, almost all. I have no idea what ND is talking about calling this further enriching of the capitalists "socialism". When I posted last night it seemed all the previous posts were poo-pooing the whole notion of corporate welfare.

I do not extend the same courtesy to corporations that would fail were it not for the largess of our tax code or bail-out packages.

The thing is, many of these would NOT fail without help, they just get it because, why the fuck not if they can? As I said upthread, the cases I personally know best are developer deals. My area was once "blighted" and declared a redevelopment zone 30 years ago, but now it is white hot. Developers are no longer taking a risk building here, and no longer need incentives. Yet they've grown so accustomed to having their snouts in the trough, and the politicians as well, that the tax abatements and other goodies keep coming.

Ikea would not fail without it's goodies, it's just SOP now to wangle them, a normal part of doing business. Every time a NY area corporation needs a new headquarters, they basically run an auction between NY, NJ and CT to see who will pay them the most. You want a great example of the kind that would fail without handouts, and did anyway? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... eadowlands Christie was in this up to his man-boobs.

Sports Stadiums are a great example of Corporate Welfare.

[brewster]

Sports Stadiums are a great example of Corporate Welfare.

I disagree. They take it all the way up to organized crime. "Nice home team you have here, be a shame if something happened to it..."

[Fife]

It's pretty common to rush to blame the mean old greedy sports team owner, as if he was stealing from the taxpayers with a gun.

Nay, nay. It takes the fatass writing the check out of the working stiff's ass to make it work. He's the one with all the guns. Legalllll guns.

Who’s Really To Blame For Sports Stadium Subsidies

Of course, it’s an easy narrative for journalists to point the finger at the extremely wealthy (usually male, usually white, usually arrogant) team owner for putting a gun to a magnanimous “public servant” and robbing them blind. (I’m guessing the media’s political leanings also contribute in some small degree to their inclination to avoid blasting the government when they have a big business private sector target.) But are the team owners really the ones at fault? Government officials have all the authority to simply say, “no.” They simply choose not to, likely due to a multitude of reasons, including but not limited to: a misguided belief that the investment will pay off, a fear of angering an extremely vocal minority of hardcore fans, and a desire to stamp their name on a civic project they can list on their resume come re-election time.

[DBTrek]

For most of human existence there was a mechanism in place for punishing those who tried to take more resources than what the tribe felt they were entitled. That mechanism was called a swift execution. However, in modern society we are so disassociated from one another and so isolated from any meaningful form of "tribe" that what would once earn you an immediate death has been downgraded to the term "fraud" and the penalty is considerably reduced (in those few cases where it is prosecuted at all).

Such are the trades of civilization.
We stop killing those who steal from the rest of society, and "fraud" flourishes.
On the upside, smartphones are pretty cool.