"If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

[DBTrek]

It's simple.

Suppose you make $100 in profit, per day, running a store selling geegaws.
You have two employees each making $10 and hour, and working 8 hours a day.

Suddenly the government mandates you pay your employees $12 an hour instead.
Now your profit is going to be $100 - $32 ($2 x 2 peole x 8 hours) = $68 a day.

How can you handle this?

You can take the loss personally, and say "Fuckit, I was making $100 a day, now I'm only making $68" - but most humans won't opt for this option, it being the worst for their self interest.

You can raise the price of your geegaws to cover the difference (assuming the pressure from your competitors allows you to. Maybe you'l have no business if you raise prices because your competitors won't).

You can cut the hours of your employees and let labor savings make up the difference.

What other alternatives do you see here, Jedi? How else would you, the employer, address the revenue loss - because it's a real loss.

[DBTrek]

By the way, I've never seen the taxpayer get a tax break from minimum wage increasing.
Thus the taxpayers are paying the tab both before and after the minimum wage hike, and are given no relief whatsoever regardless of what happens.
So how do you see taxpayer subsidies figuring into your minimum wage equations? They're going to pay either way, and will never get to pay any less from a minimum wage increase.

[jediuser598]

It's simple.

Suppose you make $100 in profit, per day, running a store selling geegaws.
You have two employees each making $10 and hour, and working 8 hours a day.

Suddenly the government mandates you pay your employees $12 an hour instead.
Now your profit is going to be $100 - $32 ($2 x 2 peole x 8 hours) = $68 a day.

How can you handle this?

You can take the loss personally, and say "Fuckit, I was making $100 a day, now I'm only making $68" - but most humans won't opt for this option, it being the worst for their self interest.

You can raise the price of your geegaws to cover the difference (assuming the pressure from your competitors allows you to. Maybe you'l have no business if you raise prices because your competitors won't).

You can cut the hours of your employees and let labor savings make up the difference.

What other alternatives do you see here, Jedi? How else would you, the employer, address the revenue loss - because it's a real loss.

Suppose you have two employees each making $1 an hour and working 8 hours a day?

I don't think you're against a minimum wage, it's just where's the price at which we set it?

Also, a lot of these places run skeleton crews anyways (as anyone who has worked minimum wage jobs recently can attest). There's a certain point where you can't cut labor any more.

I'm not saying it's simple thing, but we as citizens of this country (and you and I as citizens of this state) must decide where it's logical to set that minimum wage.

Also, this just out of Illinois, hasn't passed yet: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html

[BjornP]

When an orchard owner pays so little for his employees, guess who is picking up the tab anyways? The Taxpayer.

At federal minimum wage ($7.25 an hour), 40 hours a week, for a year, that employee of the Orchard Owner gets $13,920 a year, which buys less and less each year as inflation continues to make the dollar worth less and less.

What is your solution?

So, the difference will/should be made up for by the taxpayers?

I don't have one. It's your country. Just wondering about your logic.

Anyway, I think I remember reading (here, perhaps?) that it's only something like 2% of the entire US workforce that actually work a minimum wage job. That sound about right? If it is, why treat raising it as if it's gonna make a whole lot of difference for the average American employee?

[TheReal_ND]

Nobody works minimum wage jobs and if you are looking for one you're a retard. I haven't worked minimum wage since I was like 17

[DBTrek]

Suppose you have two employees each making $1 an hour and working 8 hours a day?
I don't think you're against a minimum wage, it's just where's the price at which we set it?

Also, a lot of these places run skeleton crews anyways (as anyone who has worked minimum wage jobs recently can attest). There's a certain point where you can't cut labor any more.

Ok, suppose you can't cut labor any more.
Then you can raise prices or you can lose profits.

Up to a point, of course.
Eventually you'll raise prices to a point where your sales will suffer and you'll run yourself out of business.
Eventually you'll reduce profits to zero and the business goes under.

So every time you raise the minimum wage you're also indirectly deciding what kinds of industries can exist and which can't. Anything rendered unprofitable by your new minimum wage is an industry that can no longer exist in America.

[jediuser598]

When an orchard owner pays so little for his employees, guess who is picking up the tab anyways? The Taxpayer.

At federal minimum wage ($7.25 an hour), 40 hours a week, for a year, that employee of the Orchard Owner gets $13,920 a year, which buys less and less each year as inflation continues to make the dollar worth less and less.

What is your solution?

So, the difference will/should be made up for by the taxpayers?

I don't have one. It's your country. Just wondering about your logic.

Anyway, I think I remember reading (here, perhaps?) that it's only something like 2% of the entire US workforce that actually work a minimum wage job. That sound about right? If it is, why treat raising it as if it's gonna make a whole lot of difference for the average American employee?

As far as I can see that number is from those that work at the federal minimum wage (7.25).

Perhaps surprisingly, not very many people earn minimum wage, and they make up a smaller share of the workforce than they used to. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, last year 1.532 million hourly workers earned the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour; nearly 1.8 million more earned less than that because they fell under one of several exemptions (tipped employees, full-time students, certain disabled workers and others), for a total of 3.3 million hourly workers at or below the federal minimum.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... imum-wage/

I might not be right, but that doesn't count those that make higher than the federal minimum wage, but still make their state's minimum wage. The more interesting number would be, how many workers in America would see a wage increase if the federal minimum wage went up to $15 an hour.

[jediuser598]

Suppose you have two employees each making $1 an hour and working 8 hours a day?
I don't think you're against a minimum wage, it's just where's the price at which we set it?

Also, a lot of these places run skeleton crews anyways (as anyone who has worked minimum wage jobs recently can attest). There's a certain point where you can't cut labor any more.

Ok, suppose you can't cut labor any more.
Then you can raise prices or you can lose profits.

Up to a point, of course.
Eventually you'll raise prices to a point where your sales will suffer and you'll run yourself out of business.
Eventually you'll reduce profits to zero and the business goes under.

So every time you raise the minimum wage you're also indirectly deciding what kinds of industries can exist and which can't. Anything rendered unprofitable by your new minimum wage is an industry that can no longer exist in America.

Sure I'll concede that, but a lot of our produce, hospitality, and services would be a lot more expensive if we didn't pay illegal immigrants to do them at obscenely low prices, thus pricing those businesses out of existence.

I see what you're getting at, at some point it's just too expensive for small businesses to operate in this country, everything will just go to huge corporations, or single employee establishments. I'd have to see what that looks like, but every year our dollar inflates, yet how long has the federal minimum wage been the same? It has to go up some time, hell I'd even be happy if it was adjusted quarterly to inflation, but it's not.

[TheReal_ND]

Nobody works minimum wage jobs and if you are looking for one you're a retard. I haven't worked minimum wage since I was like 17

Well I take that back. I'm actually considering picking up a second job.... I'm probably still not going to waste my time with minimum wage though. I need two 401k's heh

[jediuser598]

Nobody works minimum wage jobs and if you are looking for one you're a retard. I haven't worked minimum wage since I was like 17

Well I take that back. I'm actually considering picking up a second job.... I'm probably still not going to waste my time with minimum wage though. I need two 401k's heh

Why is it de rigueur to shit on people who work at minimum wage jobs? At least they're working, there's no shame in that. Hell I have more respect for a person doing an 8 hour shift at McDonalds than some paper pusher who sits at his computer all day and browses facebook and reddit.