Bye Bye Cassini

[heydaralon]

I didnt create a straw man. Im not arguing NASA is communism or making any points about wealth redistribution, bank bailouts, or foreign wars. All Im arguing is that any kind of manned space exoration is extremely expensive, and it would be difficult to get the public behind spending tax dollars atm.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I didnt create a straw man. Im not arguing NASA is communism or making any points about wealth redistribution, bank bailouts, or foreign wars. All Im arguing is that any kind of manned space exoration is extremely expensive, and it would be difficult to get the public behind spending tax dollars atm.

It was a callback to previous NASA discussions around here. The usual argument is that 'it's too expensive', then somebody veers off into political theater, calling it a 'marxist' idea. Very repetitive, and very predictable.

[Speaker to Animals]

We need to unify industry under a single government agency with the project of first capitalizing on space resources and then using the profits and surplus materials mined to build colonies.

And no matter what, we need to develop a new legal framework to extend US law to space to make this shit all work.

[heydaralon]

We need to unify industry under a single government agency with the project of first capitalizing on space resources and then using the profits and surplus materials mined to build colonies.

And no matter what, we need to develop a new legal framework to extend US law to space to make this shit all work.

Why is expanding US law into space important?

[Speaker to Animals]

We need to unify industry under a single government agency with the project of first capitalizing on space resources and then using the profits and surplus materials mined to build colonies.

And no matter what, we need to develop a new legal framework to extend US law to space to make this shit all work.

Why is expanding US law into space important?

Because you need a legal framework to deal with contracts and human society. If you want a colony, you need laws. Because colonies up there would be totally dependent upon the United States on Earth, you are going to have quite a bit of connectivity between here and there as well. It's not like when European colonized the Americas.

[heydaralon]

We need to unify industry under a single government agency with the project of first capitalizing on space resources and then using the profits and surplus materials mined to build colonies.

And no matter what, we need to develop a new legal framework to extend US law to space to make this shit all work.

Why is expanding US law into space important?

Because you need a legal framework to deal with contracts and human society. If you want a colony, you need laws. Because colonies up there would be totally dependent upon the United States on Earth, you are going to have quite a bit of connectivity between here and there as well. It's not like when European colonized the Americas.

America could set the legal framework for space if we started colonies, but the laws would be far different. American liberty as it is understood could not really exist in a space colony. If one person decided to, they could cause billions of dollars worth of damage, or destroy the colony and kill everyone. It would not be hard to puncture a window or create a breech that would expose the entire crew to the fatal atmosphere outside the structure. Because of this, there would be huge restrictions on weapons, movement, and speech. Privacy would be nonexistent. Potential colonists would have to be screened and vetted extensively, and they would have to be monitored at all times. For many people, this would be a small trade off for getting to live on another planet. But the space colonies would not be like the American frontier or the wild west. They would be living in the ultimate Nanny state, with both corporations and government breathing down their necks at every turn. I would not want to live in such conditions, and would take life on Earth with all its problems, over isolation and powerlessness in some outer space town any day.

[heydaralon]

I still think it would be cool if we did set up a colony though.

[jbird4049]

Why is expanding US law into space important?

Because you need a legal framework to deal with contracts and human society. If you want a colony, you need laws. Because colonies up there would be totally dependent upon the United States on Earth, you are going to have quite a bit of connectivity between here and there as well. It's not like when European colonized the Americas.

America could set the legal framework for space if we started colonies, but the laws would be far different. American liberty as it is understood could not really exist in a space colony. If one person decided to, they could cause billions of dollars worth of damage, or destroy the colony and kill everyone. It would not be hard to puncture a window or create a breech that would expose the entire crew to the fatal atmosphere outside the structure. Because of this, there would be huge restrictions on weapons, movement, and speech. Privacy would be nonexistent. Potential colonists would have to be screened and vetted extensively, and they would have to be monitored at all times. For many people, this would be a small trade off for getting to live on another planet. But the space colonies would not be like the American frontier or the wild west. They would be living in the ultimate Nanny state, with both corporations and government breathing down their necks at every turn. I would not want to live in such conditions, and would take life on Earth with all its problems, over isolation and powerlessness in some outer space town any day.

That might be true for the first century or two but after? The original 13 colonies took awhile but eventually...

[Speaker to Animals]

I think the comparisons to colonial America have it backwards. When America colonizes space, it will be more like America moves into space.

The Earth in a lot of ways sucks because of all the other people on the planet. This is Warworld. We constantly have to deal with stupid shit here that we wouldn't have to deal with if we moved most of our population to sustainable colonies offworld.

America was destined for this in my opinion. It's in our DNA. We are the ones who need to constantly expand. We are the ones who always seek to dominate the high ground as well. We are the ones who obsess over technology and innovation.

The only reason the Chinese are doing this shit is to prove they are our equals. They wouldn't care if we didn't already do these things. Europe is going to be Arab and North African before long, so they are out.

It is what it is. We have to move on.

[heydaralon]

I think the comparisons to colonial America have it backwards. When America colonizes space, it will be more like America moves into space.

The Earth in a lot of ways sucks because of all the other people on the planet. This is Warworld. We constantly have to deal with stupid shit here that we wouldn't have to deal with if we moved most of our population to sustainable colonies offworld.

America was destined for this in my opinion. It's in our DNA. We are the ones who need to constantly expand. We are the ones who always seek to dominate the high ground as well. We are the ones who obsess over technology and innovation.

The only reason the Chinese are doing this shit is to prove they are our equals. They wouldn't care if we didn't already do these things. Europe is going to be Arab and North African before long, so they are out.

It is what it is. We have to move on.

If you were President of the United States, or in a major congressional or cabinet position, what would the Speaker to Animals plan for outer space colonies entail? Would you try to encourage the private sector to expand into space first, or would you try to set up some kind of Manhattan project? In your opinion, how much would this cost? Most importantly, how would you sell the American people on paying for this?

Also, you have talked about asteroid mining before on DCF. How do you bring the minerals back to Earth? It seems like you would have to break off a piece of the bigger asteroid and send the smaller one through the Earth's atmosphere. If it was too small, it would just burn up in the atmosphere and be worthless, but if it was big enough to survive the journey, wouldn't it make a huge impact on Earth and cause massive amounts of damage? Another thing I've wondered about is what importing precious metals from outer space would do to the markets of those metals on Earth. I've read stuff that talks about the sheer amount of these metals on certain asteroids dwarfs the current supply on this planet. That would wreak havoc on many markets. If we could mine space, that would be incredible, but there are logistics and social problems I can't wrap my head around.