The Right and the Left need each other - debate

[MilSpecs]

What's there to discuss? It's a war till the bitter end. Your kind tried to kill my kind, laughed at us, told everybody the world would be better without us and if that wasnt bad enough was willing to nuke the entire world under Hillary for obscure gender rights. All my kind wanted was a decent job market and less illegal immigration. Literally nothing to parley over.

Who told you that the world owed you a living?

And that used to be the difference between conservative and liberal. The current generation of 'conservatives' have as great a sense of entitlement as latter day liberals. You believe you are owed something because you are a middle class citizen. Liberals created that idea. Traditional conservative thinking is that you are owed nothing but you have the right to claw your way to as high as your personal attributes can take you. Traditional liberal thinking is that nothing should stand in your way but your own ambition, and that if you can't achieve for some reason then you shouldn't starve in the streets.

I like immigrants because they have what recent generations here have lost: ambition and the willingness to sacrifice and claw our way up. I get the economic unfairness of illegal immigration but I admire them for the mental toughness we don't have anymore. Not most of us. I am sick to death of the whining on both sides, covering up personal failings with political stances (not aiming this at you ND; this is a rant).

So we see 'conservatives' and liberals alike unwilling to move, to work multiple jobs, to go to school at night, to limit their family size or marry later or god forbid as a prerequisite to reproduction, to live in multigenerational or group settings, or to sacrifice personal achievement in order to throw all the resources at the next generation.

The neoconservative hatred of the cities is even less conservative. The people ambitious enough and tough enough to sacrifice everything to better their lives and their families move to cities for the opportunity. Growing urban immigration is supposed to mean that America is working as it should, in the conservative vein. If failed immigrants (foreign and domestic) aren't dead in the streets it means liberal ideas are working.

To your belief that the left is trying to kill you off or laugh at you, maybe the effete left finds rural America a source of amusement. I doubt they want to kill off middle America. That said, if you lack ambition then get out of my way. That is traditional thinking.

Rant over. Both sides suck. And when did I turn into Diatribalist?

[Montegriffo]

Great post MDJ.
Have you tried the satay yet? BTW.

[MilSpecs]

Great post MDJ.
Have you tried the satay yet? BTW.

No, not yet. I'm hoping to get to it after Christmas. This is the busiest time of year for me.

[apeman]

when did I turn into Diatribalist?

Killer rant +1

[Smitty-48]

The revanchism of the illiberal democratic populist revolt, unsavoury perhaps, but a necessary weapon at this juncture, c'est la guerre.

Whatever gets them over the top when the whistle blows, no matter.

[clubgop]

Our common purpose here... if there is any... is to unite to overthrow the corruption that exists in both superficially left and right mainstream parties.
But we need each other not to allow the fringes of both sides of the aisle from undermining the greater project.

What is your definition of corruption? Is the mainstream corrupt because they are superficial or they superfocial because they are corrupt? Because many here see corruption in the very idea of mainstream itself. It is in our culture, we say it about musicians, entertainers. They go mainstream and their most ardent diehard fans dont celebrate the success they helped to achieve, they lament it and say the performer "sold out."

At the other end of the spectrum, when has the polity of the US not boil down to a duopoly? Look through our history. Their is a reason our Revolution didnt descend into madness like the French. We werent as fractious.

[Smitty-48]

The other reason is that America wasn't broke, because America did not lose the French and Indian War, America did not run itself into the ground fighting the French and Indian War, America had won, and America was rich, the French turned on each other, because they had lost the Seven Years War, and had gone broke fighting it, boundless prosperity was a binding force in America, there's no reason to start swinging the sword of liberty from the apple carts, when there's gold in dem hills up the Ohio valley, and nothing stopping anyone anymore from going to get it.

Ultimately, the American Revolution was the fight for Manifest Destiny.

[clubgop]

So we see 'conservatives' and liberals alike unwilling to move, to work multiple jobs, to go to school at night, to limit their family size or marry later or god forbid as a prerequisite to reproduction, to live in multigenerational or group settings, or to sacrifice personal achievement in order to throw all the resources at the next generation

Since the fuck when? Who is opposing Mike Rowe calling him a right nut job? It isnt conservatives. Who jumped in Marco Rubio's chili when he said pursuing an education in welding is more lucrative than that philosophy degree? It wasnt conservatives. When Ashton Kutcher, of all people, accepted an award and preached about hard work and perseverance who praised that message? Who chastised it? The former was conservatives, the latter was not.

[TheReal_ND]

What's there to discuss? It's a war till the bitter end. Your kind tried to kill my kind, laughed at us, told everybody the world would be better without us and if that wasnt bad enough was willing to nuke the entire world under Hillary for obscure gender rights. All my kind wanted was a decent job market and less illegal immigration. Literally nothing to parley over.

Who told you that the world owed you a living?

And that used to be the difference between conservative and liberal. The current generation of 'conservatives' have as great a sense of entitlement as latter day liberals. You believe you are owed something because you are a middle class citizen. Liberals created that idea. Traditional conservative thinking is that you are owed nothing but you have the right to claw your way to as high as your personal attributes can take you. Traditional liberal thinking is that nothing should stand in your way but your own ambition, and that if you can't achieve for some reason then you shouldn't starve in the streets.

I like immigrants because they have what recent generations here have lost: ambition and the willingness to sacrifice and claw our way up. I get the economic unfairness of illegal immigration but I admire them for the mental toughness we don't have anymore. Not most of us. I am sick to death of the whining on both sides, covering up personal failings with political stances (not aiming this at you ND; this is a rant).

So we see 'conservatives' and liberals alike unwilling to move, to work multiple jobs, to go to school at night, to limit their family size or marry later or god forbid as a prerequisite to reproduction, to live in multigenerational or group settings, or to sacrifice personal achievement in order to throw all the resources at the next generation.

The neoconservative hatred of the cities is even less conservative. The people ambitious enough and tough enough to sacrifice everything to better their lives and their families move to cities for the opportunity. Growing urban immigration is supposed to mean that America is working as it should, in the conservative vein. If failed immigrants (foreign and domestic) aren't dead in the streets it means liberal ideas are working.

To your belief that the left is trying to kill you off or laugh at you, maybe the effete left finds rural America a source of amusement. I doubt they want to kill off middle America. That said, if you lack ambition then get out of my way. That is traditional thinking.

Rant over. Both sides suck. And when did I turn into Diatribalist?

Umm what? Voting for my interest means I feel I'm entitled to something? Where did you get that from what I wrote? As for illegal immigrants they can go back and try to come in the right way. What makes them entitled to breaking the law? Do you feel entitled to have them break the law?

[clubgop]

The other reason is that America wasn't broke, because America did not lose the French and Indian War, America did not run itself into the ground fighting the French and Indian War, America had won, and America was rich, the French turned on each other, because they had lost the Seven Years War, and had gone broke fighting it, boundless prosperity was a binding force in America, there's no reason to start swinging the sword of liberty from the apple carts, when there's gold in dem hills up the Ohio valley, and nothing stopping anyone anymore from going to get it.

Ultimately, the American Revolution was the fight for Manifest Destiny.

Oh we were most certainly broke. Congress stiffed a bunch of soldiers and other credit holders. If we weren't broke we'd probably be talking about a President or Governor Arnold. I guess you are right about that second half.