Russian trolls

Okeefenokee
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Okeefenokee » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:29 pm

nmoore63 wrote:I never said anything about nazis.

You literally have nothing that backs up Britain being ok with a one power continent.
Britain had a centuries long policy of making sure Europe was not a one power continent. This is true.
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Smitty-48
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 pm

Fun fact; even the Treaty of Paris in the wake of Yorktown to bury the hatchet with the American traitors was about India.

The British could have, if they had chosen to, continued to war with the Americans indefinitely, they had the power to fight America to a standstill, but, that would have required pulling forces from India, imperiling the Raj, so that was a non starter, and thus they abandoned America, which to the British, was a cold nasty horrible place, as opposed to India, which was non stop fun in the sun.
Last edited by Smitty-48 on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Okeefenokee » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:
nmoore63 wrote:
Smitty-48 wrote:Even in the Second World War, the British didn't give a shit about the Continent, they didn't give a shit about France, all that was important was the route to India and the Far East beyond, Hitler was only a problem so long as he sat astride that, and he only sat astride that when Italy flipped to Germany's side, so Britain's entire war effort was basically about taking Italy and North Africa, and convincing the Americans to help, while delaying the American plan to liberate France, which the British did not prioritize at all.
you don't actually believe this do you?
That's the reality of Churchill's entire war plan, Italy was not in any way the Soft Underbelly of Europe and he knew it, but that was what he convinced FDR of in order to get FDR to fight the British fight to retake the route to India and the Far East beyond, even tho FDR's Generals were screaming at him that the British were scamming him into fighting for the Raj in India, because FDR was simply charmed by wiley ol' Churchill.
They flipped in two seconds. How were they not the soft underbelly?
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Smitty-48
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:34 pm

Okeefenokee wrote:They flipped in two seconds. How were they not the soft underbelly?
The Germans sent Kesselring and Kesselring turned it into a fortress which resulted in a bloody massacre for the allies which persisted until literally the end of the war, the Germans in Italy did not surrender until 2 May 1945.
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Okeefenokee » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:40 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:
Okeefenokee wrote:They flipped in two seconds. How were they not the soft underbelly?
The Germans sent Kesselring and Kesselring turned it into a fortress which resulted in a bloody massacre for the allies which persisted until literally the end of the war, the Germans in Italy did not surrender until 2 May 1945.
Those were Germans.

Where were the Italians?

Stringing up Mussolini.
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Smitty-48
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:44 pm

Okeefenokee wrote:
Smitty-48 wrote:
Okeefenokee wrote:They flipped in two seconds. How were they not the soft underbelly?
The Germans sent Kesselring and Kesselring turned it into a fortress which resulted in a bloody massacre for the allies which persisted until literally the end of the war, the Germans in Italy did not surrender until 2 May 1945.
Those were Germans.

Where were the Italians?

Stringing up Mussolini.
Which did nothing for the Allies, since the Germans were massacring them in arguably the most masterful defensive warfare campaign of all time. Turns out Albert Kesselring, who was an air force officer, was an all time master of defensive warfare and he made Italy into one of the longest and bloodiest campaigns of the war for the Allies.
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Okeefenokee » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:47 pm

That sounds like a rock solid foreign defensive strategy.

Divert troops to kill your once allied troops while the enemy masses troops to invade elsewhere.
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Smitty-48
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:50 pm

Well the American Generals thought it was complete balderdash, basically just getting American boys killed to no good purpose, when they should have been driving straight to the heart of the matter in Berlin through France to end the war decisively and as soon as possible rather than expending blood and treasure on the margins.
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:56 pm

Not to mention that you are invoking a war of attrition, which is not a sound strategy but rather the absence of a strategy, which again; that's what the Pentagon said at the time.
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Re: Russian trolls

Post by Smitty-48 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:01 pm

In the end, the American Generals won out, because eventually even FDR was convinced that Churchill was more trouble than he was worth and the Americans basically cut the British out of the high level decision making in favour of just working with Stalin.

At the beginning of the war, FDR was enthralled by Churchill, nearer the end of the war Churchill was out of the loop and FDR was on to "my dear Mister Stalin". Churchill dithered and diverted resources into British Imperial pet projects, while Stalin got things done.

Having fought the First World War, the British were loathe to go back to a Western Front, that loomed over them like a spectre, and the only thing Churchill wanted to bleed for, was trying to save the Empire overseas, in terms of Germany itself, the British were enthralled by the promise strategic airpower to keep boots off the ground and so hoped to bomb them into submission.

The Americans on the other hand, had come into the First World War only at the end, one big offensive, and then it was done, so that is how they wanted to fight the war, and they had no interest whatsoever in bleeding to save the British Empire.
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