Daniel Shaver shooting

[Speaker to Animals]

A. A person commits first degree murder if:

1. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.

http://codes.findlaw.com/az/title-13-cr ... -1105.html


Not seeing reasonable doubt here, dude. He intended to shoot this guy. He admitted as much while taunting his victim. It's right there on video.

He is supposed to make an affirmative defense at this point. If you kill somebody in self-defense, for instance. "Reasonable doubt" does not come into play. At least.. it shouldn't. The cop is bound by the same self-defense statutes as every other citizen of the state of Arizona. He obviously violated the law. This reasonable doubt nonsense is a fucking farce. You know it.

[Speaker to Animals]

13-405. Justification; use of deadly physical force

A. A person is justified in threatening or using deadly physical force against another:

1. If such person would be justified in threatening or using physical force against the other under section 13-404, and

2. When and to the degree a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly physical force.

B. A person has no duty to retreat before threatening or using deadly physical force pursuant to this section if the person is in a place where the person may legally be and is not engaged in an unlawful act.

https://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.as ... /00405.htm

Officer Simon Says should have to show (1) that Daniel Shaver was threatening or using physical force, and (2) that officer Simon Says reasonably believed deadly force was immediately necessary to protect himself. Yet the video shows the only aggressor here was Officer Simon Says. It clearly shows Officer Simon Says consistently threatening to harm Daniel Shaver, while Daniel Shaver was on the ground pleading for his life and making no threatening gestures. No reasonable person can conclude that Officer Simon Says life was ever in jeopardy. Indeed, it was the rest of society who was threatened by that little cunt cop.

[heydaralon]

Do Capps or DrYouth skate? I know Capps watches Hockey, but does he play?

I had great hockey sense, but I was never fast enough to fully exploit it, like Smitty, my brother had the wheels. I'm good playmaker and I have a knack for scoring garbage goals in close, but never had the speed.

I used to play with Ben Chairot (plays defense for the Winnipeg Jets) as a kid, when I was like 7, he was 5, and because I was the oldest and consequently best player on the team he practiced with, his dad who was the coach always used to throw him up against me, and have us compete against each other during practice, iron sharpening iron style. Let's just say that the window of me being better than Ben Chairot was quite short lived, but I used to be better than him, lol, though he always was a better skater than me, even at 5, his dad was a dope skating coach. Now he's making $1.4 million a year.

That's awesome! I never knew any pro athletes growing up. I've always been terrible at sports.

[LVH2]

I've distilled it down to this, though this is a political argument.

Convenience store clerks deal with all kinds of sketchy characters and occasionally get shot.

Unlike cops, they don't have a wide array of weapons and training and backup. If they are injured, I doubt their medical expenses are covered. If they die, nobody takes care of their families. They get maybe 20% of the compensation that police get.

I'm reasonably certain that convenience store clerks can't get away with shooting people because they think maybe, possibly when they pulled up their pants, they could perhaps have been going for an unseen gun at which point there was some chance that they wouldn't get the first shot off, and then maybe the first shot would have hit them.

So, cops should be held to a vastly LOWER standard on this front than Habib at 7-11 because....??????

[heydaralon]

I've distilled it down to this, though this is a political argument.

Convenience store clerks deal with all kinds of sketchy characters and occasionally get shot.

Unlike cops, they don't have a wide array of weapons and training and backup. If they are injured, I doubt their medical expenses are covered. If they die, nobody takes care of their families. They get maybe 20% of the compensation that police get.

I'm reasonably certain that convenience store clerks can't get away with shooting people because they think maybe, possibly when they pulled up their pants, they could perhaps have been going for an unseen gun at which point there was some chance that they wouldn't get the first shot off, and then maybe the first shot would have hit them.

So, cops should be held to a vastly LOWER standard on this front than Habib at 7-11 because....??????

There are so many jobs that are more dangerous than being a cop. Logger, fisherman etc. Its ridiculous. If this guy wanted to shoot people, he should have joined the special forces.

[Smitty-48]

I'm reasonably certain that convenience store clerks can't get away with shooting people because they think maybe, possibly when they pulled up their pants, they could perhaps have been going for an unseen gun at which point there was some chance that they wouldn't get the first shot off, and then maybe the first shot would have hit them.

That's simply not true, if the convenience store clerk was attempting to arrest a person in the store, and that person made a sudden move which appeared to be going for a gun, American juries would acquit, you can use a gun to defend yourself in America, and so long as the jury believes that you did not have the mens rea, the guilty mind to commit murder, they won't convict you of murder.

Property owners or their proxies, are given the benefit of the doubt as much as the police are, in fact, property owners arguably have even broader latitude than the police. Hell, in Texas, you can shoot a man for taking socks off your wash line, while he's running away.

[heydaralon]

Even Mens Rea won't save you, because that dude got burned to death by Stannis for refusing to kneel to the Lord of Light. Not sure if the jury would even be that familiar with Westeros to be honest.

[Smitty-48]

It's actually easier to convict for 1st degree murder than it is for 2nd degree murder, because 1st degree murder means that they have evidence of premeditation, and that's generally what hangs you, whereas 2nd degree murder all comes down to your state of mind in the moment, so there is much more room for reasonable doubt.

[C-Mag]

A. A person commits first degree murder if:

1. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.

http://codes.findlaw.com/az/title-13-cr ... -1105.html


Not seeing reasonable doubt here, dude. He intended to shoot this guy. He admitted as much while taunting his victim. It's right there on video.

He is supposed to make an affirmative defense at this point. If you kill somebody in self-defense, for instance. "Reasonable doubt" does not come into play. At least.. it shouldn't. The cop is bound by the same self-defense statutes as every other citizen of the state of Arizona. He obviously violated the law. This reasonable doubt nonsense is a fucking farce. You know it.

+1
Agreed.
Listening to that pussy cop, it was pre meditated murder.

Current Rules of Engagement for US LEOs is The LEO needs only be able to show that he had some reason that he might fear for his life. For example, he might have a gun stuffed in his gym shorts. That's all it takes. That's why he was found not guilty. It's bullshit.

The biggest issue is that LEOs are taught and trained that their lives are more important than civilians. Take Fire Fighters and EMTs, they put their lives in danger all the time for civilians they don't know. That's the model.

[heydaralon]

Radley Balko has written a lot of great stuff about the problems of policing in America. Cops today act like they are soldiers. A soldiers role is vastly different than that of a peace officer. Soldiers occupy enemy territory, police are supposed to protect citizens who subsidize their wages. We have it all ass backwards in the states.