Russian trolls

[SuburbanFarmer]

Austria-Hungary was not a German proxy, Hohenzollern had no control over Hapsburg-Lorraine, "Germany declared war by proxy" is balderdash, you can't declare war by proxy, Austria-Hungary was not a proxy for Germany, and Germany never mobilized nor took any hostile military action on behalf of Austria-Hungary, nor against Serbia, nor against Russia.

As usual, you have to throw up a smokescreen of fallacies, to try to dig yourself out of the nonsense corner you have painted yourself into.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-his ... -assurance

On July 5, 1914, in Berlin, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany pledges his country’s unconditional support for whatever action Austria-Hungary chooses to take in its conflict with Serbia, a long-running rivalry thrown into crisis by the assassination, the previous June 28, of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife by a Serbian nationalist during an official visit to Sarajevo, Bosnia.

Wilhelm was outraged by Franz Ferdinand’s murder, and felt a sense of personal loss: the two had met at the archduke’s country estate just two weeks before the assassination to discuss the situation in the Balkans. Though he initially demurred and said he needed to consult the German chancellor, Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg, he eventually—when pressed by the ambassador—responded with uncharacteristic decisiveness, promising Germany’s “faithful support” for Austria-Hungary in whatever action it chose to take towards Serbia, even if Russia intervened. Later that afternoon, Wilhelm assembled a crown council, attended by Bethmann Hollweg, Foreign Secretary Arthur Zimmermann, and War Minister Erich von Falkenhayn, among others. From this meeting, a consensus emerged backing the kaiser’s decision, which Bethmann Hollweg subsequently relayed to the Austrian representatives and Hoyos triumphantly carried back to Vienna.

Yeah, I just made that up. They were two completely separate entities (*cough* Habsburgs *cough*), and Germany just decided to back them up out of the blue, as a favor. Totally weird, that.

[BjornP]

Germany never declared war on Serbia, once again, Grumpy has no clue what he's blabbering on about.

Austria-Hungary did, and Germany by proxy. I seriously just posted the link to the timeline a page ago.

Read the timeline at August 6th 1914.

[Smitty-48]

Yeah, so, as I said; Germany did not declare war on Serbia, nor Russia prior to Russian mobilization for war, and while Germany was allied to Austria-Hungary, Austria-Hungary was not their proxy, and Germany never took any hostile action against Serbia, nor Russia, nor did they mobilize for war prior to 1 August 1914.

This is again, Grumpy's fallacy smokescreen, to try to dig himself out of a nonsense assertion he has made before checking the facts, who knew?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Germany never declared war on Serbia, once again, Grumpy has no clue what he's blabbering on about.

Austria-Hungary did, and Germany by proxy. I seriously just posted the link to the timeline a page ago.

Read the timeline at August 6th 1914.

Understood. There was no 'explicit declaration of war from Germany against Serbia'.

I don't think that matters much, when Germany was already mid-invasion of western Europe, on behalf of Austria-Hungary, who was already at war with Serbia for 2 weeks, by the time Serbia declared against them.

Just a formality at that point.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Yeah, so, as I said; Germany did not declare war on Serbia, nor Russia prior to Russian mobilization for war, and while Germany was allied to Austria-Hungary, Austria-Hungary was not their proxy, and Germany never took any hostile action against Serbia, nor Russia, nor did they mobilize for war prior to 1 August 1914.

This is again, Grumpy's fallacy smokescreen, to try to dig himself out of a nonsense assertion he has made before checking the facts, who knew?

I guess you can take that 3 day delay in German mobilization, and try to pin it as "Germany dindu nuffin", but that is some incredibly shaky ground you're on.

They sent the ultimatum 2 days prior to mobilizing, as a formality, and to avoid blame for any post-war finger pointing. There is no goddamn mechanism in 1914, that's going to get an official document from Berlin to Moscow, reviewed, and returned signed within 48 hours.

[Smitty-48]

More fallacious bullshit from Grumpy, not only was it not a formality, Kaiser Bill did not actually believe that Austria-Hungary would mobilize for war just to bring tiny Serbia to heel, nor did he believe that the Romanovs would be cray-cray enough to go to war over it, which is why Germany did not declare war on anyone, nor mobilize for war, nor take any hostile military action against anyone, prior to 1 August 1914, because in fact, the Germans did not believe that it would come to war in the end, so they weren't going to start anything.

The only message sent to the Russians was, in essence; "why are you mobilizing for total war against us without declaration over tiny Serbia, have you lost your minds, for Gods sake stop this madness."

You can tell by the posting of the " " that Grumpy has dug himself into a corner, he's not really laughing, that's one of those fake laughs people post when they are cornered and then trying to distract.

[Montegriffo]

If Germany and the Kaiser weren't looking for war why did they build a Navy second only to the Royal Navy?
They wanted a bigger share of world trade and knew the only way to get it was to take it from Britain.
They may not have directly started WWI but they had been preparing for it for years.

[Smitty-48]

If Germany and the Kaiser weren't looking for war why did they build a Navy second only to the Royal Navy?
They wanted a bigger share of world trade and knew the only way to get it was to take it from Britain.
They may not have directly started WWI but they had been preparing for it for years.

Kaiser Bill was insecure about his relationship with his British family, but he actually worshiped them, particularly his grandmother, and he loved the navy and he wanted a navy like theirs, to impress upon them that he wasn't a loser but rather just like them. He just wanted to be loved.

None the less, "ZOMG Germany has a navy" is no casus belli for total war against Germany, and in fact, Britain never declared war over it, nor did they threaten to.

[Okeefenokee]

/bonghit. You know maaaaaaan, they even had a navy.

[Smitty-48]

The British and the Germans were in a state of competition, Germany seeking its Place in the Sun, Britain being wary of them, none the less, Germany and Britain were not actually on the brink of war in the summer of 1914, the British were in fact in a state which they referred to as "Splendid Isolation" from the Continent, contending that they were not interested in intervening in any disputes between Germany, France and Russia.