Our Guy Flynn

[StCapps]

Smitty has become ssu, prattling on about a Russian boogeyman with no evidence. An interesting development.

[Smitty-48]

Trump just didn't have the background as to what it was he was authorizing and that it could in fact be a felony, but now the lawyers are telling Trump that it is a felony, at which point Trump has now pulled the switch on the Save Me Pence Emergency Response (lying through our teeth) Plan

Likely so. And likely they had been already so much in touch with the Russians they thought this wouldn't matter.

Precisely, you get into the habit of talking to the Russians, the Russians were in fact trying to cultivate them, so it's just another quid pro quo in a long series of quid pro quos, and in classic Flynn fashion "fuck the Logan Act, that's a stupid rule, we'll talk to whomever we please, they ain't the boss of us, Donald, you're the President now."

[StCapps]

Trump just didn't have the background as to what it was he was authorizing and that it could in fact be a felony, but now the lawyers are telling Trump that it is a felony, at which point Trump has now pulled the switch on the Save Me Pence Emergency Response (lying through our teeth) Plan

Likely so. And likely they had been already so much in touch with the Russians they thought this wouldn't matter.

Precisely, you get into the habit of talking to the Russians, the Russians were in fact trying to cultivate them, so it's just another quid pro quo in a long series of quid pro quos, and in classic Flynn fashion "fuck the Logan Act, that's a stupid rule, we'll talk to whomever we please, they ain't the boss of us, Donald, you're the President now."

If I wanted to hear this bullshit, I could I always turn on CNN. Now you are carrying their water and prattling on like ssu about Russia. Blue skying, more like concern trolling.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

This shit is getting RAW!

[Smitty-48]

I said I'd give Trump a chance, I didn't prejudge him, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but now he is lying to me, blatantly lying to me through his teeth, as he has cucked out and thrown Flynn under the bus, so I am just taking it as he is presenting it to me, the more he is lying about this, the more credence he is lending to the suspicion that he is trying to hide something about his dealings with the Russians, I'm not making him do this, I'm not the one who cucked on this, he is the one cucking out and trying to make it like Flynn was some sort of rogue agent rather than one his right hand men, I am just blue skying as to why he would be doing this.

If this is all made up bullshit, why are they lying? Why don't they just tell the obvious truth, and say that Flynn was acting on the orders of the President, and nothing Flynn did was illegal? If it's all bullshit, then that shouldn't be a problem at all.

Now they're trying to tell me that Flynn went rogue and they had no idea what he was doing and saying? Please, get real.

[StCapps]

I said I'd give Trump a chance, I didn't prejudge him, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but now he is lying to me, blatantly lying to me through his teeth, as he has cucked out and thrown Flynn under the bus, so I am just taking it as he is presenting it to me, the more he is lying about this, the more credence he is lending to the suspicion that he is trying to hide something about his dealings with the Russians, I'm not making him do this, I'm not the one who cucked on this, he is the one cucking out and trying to make it like Flynn was some sort of rogue agent rather than one his right hand men, I am just blue skying as to why he would be doing this.

Well I liked your old theories better, that Trump was doing this to bring in establishment GOP dudes who had already run shit to fully buy into his administration and staff key positions, now that he's shown a willingness to take out the outsider baggage, so he can get more of his agenda passed.

Your new ones suck and assume Trump and Flynn are dumber than the evidence currently suggests and the new information you've taken in shouldn't lead you to such outlandish conclusions. Now you just sound like a cross between Wolf Blitzer, Lindsey Graham and ssu. 24 hours ago, you actually sounded like you knew what you were talking about, now not so much.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I think it is completely an ego problem. Trump thinks he is untouchable, and has been confirmed in that idea for a long time. But Putin is no slouch, and he KNEW that any fallout from trying to back door US-Russian diplomacy would land entirely on the US.

The problem is that deep game and lucky loose cannon look exactly the same, and you can never be quite sure which you've got until heads start to roll.

[Smitty-48]

Pence is clearly taking over, as Trump and his hand picked people are drifting into dissarray, it's not either or, clearly there is a power struggle going on at the WH, and throwing Flynn under the bus is related to that, but there is another track, which is why are they throwing Flynn under the bus in a panic and then lying through their teeth about Flynn being some sort of rogue element?

I think the Pence GOP takeover is interelated to the Russia problem, Trump is now starting to realize that the Russia problem is in fact a big fucking problem, and Trump is in the jackpot with everybody else, so rather than Pence having to take over in an orderly fashion, getting rid of Flynn at some future date, he is rather being called in to the rescue, Trump is panicking, and saying save me Pence, this Russia shit is getting out of control, to which Pence is saying "step one, we have to disavow Flynn, blame it on Flynn, and get rid of him, not later, right fucking now..."

[StCapps]

Pence is clearly taking over, as Trump and his hand picked people are drifting into dissarray, it's not either or, clearly there is a power struggle going on at the WH, and throwing Flynn under the bus is related to that, but there is another track, which is why are they throwing Flynn under the bus in a panic and then lying through their teeth about Flynn being some sort of rogue element?

I think the Pence GOP takeover is interelated to the Russia problem, Trump is now starting to realize that the Russia problem is in fact a big fucking problem, and Trump is in the jackpot with everybody else, so rather than Pence having to take over in an orderly fashion, getting rid of Flynn at some future date, he is rather being called in to the rescue, Trump is panicking, and saying save me Pence, this Russia shit is getting out of control, to which Pence is saying "step one, we have to disavow Flynn, blame it on Flynn, and get rid of him, not later, right fucking now..."

Why does it have to be Russia problem and not just a Flynn problem or Trump simply caving to pressure from the media and his advisers? Why does a real big Russia issue that is just the tip of the iceberg have to be tied up in all of that? I see no reason to lump that all in like ssu would.

[ssu]

Exactly, and you wouldn't do it in a panic, spur of the moment, you'd wait awhile, let it go for a few weeks, then have Flynn resign on the "personal issues" rubric, and have his replacement right there ready to go. The fact that they are doing this in such an obvious panic, and so obviously lying through their teeth while they do, lends credence to the suspicion, that the whole Russia thing is much bigger than just Flynn, tip of the iceberg is showing, but underneath, they've got a big ol' Russia problem, and it could get out of hand, like Special Prosecutor out of hand, if they can't nip this thing in the bud.

It's Trumps own actions that lend credence to the suspicions here.

Nobody else in the administration was praising Putin (and hence putting this whole thing on focus), dragging their feet about the Russia hacks (as Russia has a history of trying to meddle in elections). If Flynn had the idea of getting the Russians alongside the US to fight ISIS, he otherwise held totally normal cautious views about Russia. Rex Tillerson manages to explain his ties to Russia in a way that doesn't send alarm bells ringing off either: he is a businessman and oil is (was) his business and you know what, there is a lot of oil in Siberia. (Besides, people that vouched for Tillerson were republicans like former defence secretary Gates, republican secretaries of state Condi Rice and James Baker, which is interesting).

And just then compare how the Trump administration deals with China: the no-nonsense hawkish way a republican administration would do it, or perhaps even a more aggressive stance. The difference then with Russia is a bit too different.

I think it is completely an ego problem. Trump thinks he is untouchable, and has been confirmed in that idea for a long time. But Putin is no slouch, and he KNEW that any fallout from trying to back door US-Russian diplomacy would land entirely on the US.

The problem is that deep game and lucky loose cannon look exactly the same, and you can never be quite sure which you've got until heads start to roll.

Basically Trump cannot play with a hidden card. If he has connections to Russia and they might help him, fine, but don't fucking make that so evident as your the US president. Above all, don't make it so that your government and it's security apparatus starts to get worried about it.