[s]YouTube stuff[/s] cancelled

[GloryofGreece]

Murder laws are enforced every day you idiot.

Indeed they are - after the fact. They don't do a hell of a lot to prevent it.

Mud slinging and insults aside (I don't know why it gets so dirty in here but glad there's different opinions being voiced) Anyway to the point, I don't think we can say that laws don't have a preventative effect on violence. I think if people think that they are going to get caught or theres a chance they will and there are enforceable laws and punishments that yes in fact an un quantifiable amount of violence is prevented in America b/c of the "laws" and police even though yes violence still obviously happens.

[BjornP]

Murder laws are enforced every day you idiot.

Indeed they are - after the fact. They don't do a hell of a lot to prevent it.

How do you know? What actual data are you basing your assertion/assumption/feelz on? Given how no country in the world has, or ever had, been without laws against murder, how can you tell how big a part laws against murder play in preventing murder?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Murder laws are enforced every day you idiot.

Indeed they are - after the fact. They don't do a hell of a lot to prevent it.

How do you know? What actual data are you basing your assertion/assumption/feelz on? Given how no country in the world has, or ever had, been without laws against murder, how can you tell how big a part laws against murder play in preventing murder?

Fair. But there is no shortage of nations with laws against abortion. Those are the places you are most likely to find abandoned children, and dead women from back-alley abortions.

[BjornP]

Fair. But there is no shortage of nations with laws against abortion. Those are the places you are most likely to find abandoned children, and dead women from back-alley abortions.

That's honestly a useless argument for legalizing abortion, and I'm for (restricted) legalized abortion. Wether something should be allowed or not should have nothing to do with it being carried out in the shadows.

[Speaker to Animals]

It's the end game of liberalism, really. No moral standards whatsoever except the making of the lack of moral standards into a substitute for moral good.

[clubgop]

Fair. But there is no shortage of nations with laws against abortion. Those are the places you are most likely to find abandoned children, and dead women from back-alley abortions.

That's honestly a useless argument for legalizing abortion, and I'm for (restricted) legalized abortion. Wether something should be allowed or not should have nothing to do with it being carried out in the shadows.

Yes it should, government has to contend with that fact. Now for things like murder or theft sure damn the consequences you do what you gotta do on that but things like drugs, guns, or alcohol we have been through these prohibitions and the negative consequences make for higher societal cost than just punishing the externalities. Now I believe abortion is one of those things that the consequences be damned. We regulate and license healthcare practitioners very heavily except for abortion mills, a piercing pagoda at the local mall is more regulated than an abortion clinic. If you want abortion to be legitimate healthcare than they should treat as such, but no dirty dick and the rest want their babies and kill them in the womb too.

[Okeefenokee]

Indeed they are - after the fact. They don't do a hell of a lot to prevent it.

How do you know? What actual data are you basing your assertion/assumption/feelz on? Given how no country in the world has, or ever had, been without laws against murder, how can you tell how big a part laws against murder play in preventing murder?

Fair. But there is no shortage of nations with laws against abortion. Those are the places you are most likely to find abandoned children, and dead women from back-alley abortions.

Talking out your ass.

[BjornP]

Fair. But there is no shortage of nations with laws against abortion. Those are the places you are most likely to find abandoned children, and dead women from back-alley abortions.

That's honestly a useless argument for legalizing abortion, and I'm for (restricted) legalized abortion. Wether something should be allowed or not should have nothing to do with it being carried out in the shadows.

Yes it should, government has to contend with that fact. Now for things like murder or theft sure damn the consequences you do what you gotta do on that but things like drugs, guns, or alcohol we have been through these prohibitions and the negative consequences make for higher societal cost than just punishing the externalities. Now I believe abortion is one of those things that the consequences be damned. We regulate and license healthcare practitioners very heavily except for abortion mills, a piercing pagoda at the local mall is more regulated than an abortion clinic. If you want abortion to be legitimate healthcare than they should treat as such, but no dirty dick and the rest want their babies and kill them in the womb too.

In fairness, aren't the various US states very different when it comes to allowing abortion? Most are probably as or more permissive than the EU average, but I suspect you have some states that nearly ban abortion? None of you advocate federal bans on abortion, do you?

Arguing that there's a benefit to legalizing guns, drugs or alcohol because banning them would otherwise lead to crime is.... I can't even wrap my head around that. Not from any cultural POV or anything, the increasing number of people arguing for legalizing weed here use the argument all the time. I just simply cannot even mentally digest that way of thinking and don't consider it persuasive.
Try and apply that thinking to immigration. Making it illegal to cross the border without authorization also leads to societal costs and negative consequences, does it not? So... no more borders to keep crime all the way down?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Yes. They are arguing for a complete federal ban. Chopping off the leg, to spite a toe.

[clubgop]

No, Roe v Wade and Conn. vs griswald is very clear. They cannot prohibit it. Now things can be made very difficult. But planned parenthood is federally fucking funded so difficulties are overcome. You are absolutely wrong on this.

As for the second argument, there is a cost/benefit argument to be made laws require two things to be enforced cash and balls. Got to put money behind it and have to have the balls to enforce that law to the letter. My belief is to prohibit and prosecute the behavior you dont want but banning the thing is nonproductive because the political will doesn't exist to put the cash and balls behind it.

What doesn't make sense to me to see the failure and unwillingness of law enforcement to enforce laws and so the solution is to make more laws and give failing law enforcement more power to enforce laws they cant or won't enforce. We are there with drugs, guns, and to some extent alcohol.