Russian trolls

[Smitty-48]

Great Britain in the first modern liberal democracy; 1688.

[Smitty-48]

You could say the Dutch Republic from 1588, but I would assert, the Union of Utrecht was too unstable, they were in a constant state of civil war, invasion, occupation, revolution, counter revolution, etc, so the Dutch Republic never really took hold as a modern state.

Thus why the Prince Regent crossed to London and applied for the job there instead.

[DrYouth]

Great Britain in the first modern liberal democracy; 1688.

A victory for the nobility over the monarchy... the nobility representing the interests of the common folk who wanted none of this tolerance of Catholics...

Yes indeed a key turning point in the Rule of Law constraining the monarch.

Affirmed parliamentary supremacy, passed the Bill of Rights and established the principle of "consent of the governed".

You have no argument from me.... the origins of liberalism indeed.

[Smitty-48]

No, the monarch had already been long constrained, since 1215, constraining the monarch and liberalism; two separate issues, rule of law and liberalism are not the same thing, in fact, many liberals were and are quite lawless by nature.

[DrYouth]

Yes but the monarch wasn't calling parliament anymore .... hence the revolution...
Sealed the deal on parliamentary supremacy didn't it.

[SuburbanFarmer]

France and Russia attacked them on behalf of Serbia.

lolwut?

Did you not know how the First World War started?

I've heard/read the story many times, but this is the first time I've been told that France and Russia started it.

[Smitty-48]

lolwut?

Did you not know how the First World War started?

I've heard/read the story many times, but this is the first time I've been told that France and Russia started it.

The Russians were the first to mobilize for war, without declaration, in support of Serbia, on 31 July 1914, Germany is then forced to declare war on Russia in defense, to which France then began mobilizing in support of Russia the next day.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Did you not know how the First World War started?

I've heard/read the story many times, but this is the first time I've been told that France and Russia started it.

The Russians were the first to mobilize for war, without declaration, in support of Serbia, on 31 July 1914, Germany is then forced to declare war on Russia in defense, to which France then began mobilizing in support of Russia the next day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_World_War_I

July 28 Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia.[4] Russia mobilizes.[5] Details
The Netherlands declare neutrality.
July 29 Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany and Czar Nicholas II of Russia communicate via telegram.[6]

Kinda hard to imagine how they started it, on the same day that Austria-Hungary declared war. Keeping in mind that there were no telephones at the time, and "mobilization" took a month or so.

[Smitty-48]

Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia not Russia. Germany did not declare war on Russia until after Russia had executed a full mobilization for war order against Germany, to which Germany had exhausted diplomatic means of trying to convince the Russians to stop, before declaration in defense from it.

The Russians started the First World War, the Germans had neither attacked not declared war on anybody, before Russian full mobilization for war against Germany.

Austria-Hungary was not Germany, Serbia was not Russia, there was no German intervention against Serbia, nor Russia, the Germans had nothing to do with it, none the less, the Russians chose to go to war against Germany out of the blue, and the Germans tried to talk them out of it, before being forced to defend themselves. Then the French pile on and attack Germany from the other direction.

At which point Germany comes out swinging, in both directions, which, what else were they supposed to do, in the face of unprovoked simultaneous mobilization for total war against them?

The Czar wanted a war, the French piled on with the Czar, the only one who didn't want the war, was Kaiser Bill.

Do you not understand Nicolas II and his crazy wife? They were nutjobs, Kaiser Bill was the voice of reason in the face of those two kooks. It was the Romanovs, mate, they were loony tunes.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia not Russia. Germany did not declare war on Russia until after Russia had executed a full mobilization for war order against Germany, to which Germany had exhausted diplomatic means of trying to convince the Russians to stop, before declaration in defense from it.

The Russians started the First World War, the Germans had neither attacked not declared war on anybody, before Russian full mobilization for war against Germany.

Austria-Hungary was not Germany, Serbia was not Russia, there was no German intervention against Serbia, nor Russia, the Germans had nothing to do with it, none the less, the Russians chose to go to war against Germany out of the blue, and the Germans tried to talk them out of it, before being forced to defend themselves. Then the French pile on and attack Germany from the other direction.

At which point Germany comes out swinging, in both directions, which, what else were they supposed to do, in the face of unprovoked simultaneous mobilization for total war against them?

The Czar wanted a war, the French piled on with the Czar, the only one who didn't want the war, was Kaiser Bill.

Do you not understand Nicolas II and his crazy wife? They were nutjobs, Kaiser Bill was the voice of reason in the face of those two kooks. It was the Romanovs, mate, they were loony tunes.

Mobilization is not declaration. The Germans declared on Russia's ally, therefore, Russia was obligated to defend them. As soon as tensions went up, Russia started drilling up the troops. It was well understood at the time.

And Kaiser Bill was an incompetent boob. He was nothing without Von Bismark.