Public Employees Pensions Will Be To The 2nd Civil War What Slavery Was To The First

[DBTrek]

No doubt. This part of it pisses me off, especially as I move through the process into admin. I have to network (fine), I have to show intiative (of course), and I have to have the data to show I know what I’m doing (duh), but I also have to watch out for the status quo folks on campus who don’t want to change much of anything they do, and who have the ear of the admin due to longevity. It’s fucked. I can’t speak truth to power for fear of fucking up future job recommendations, even though there are clear areas of improvement.

I know for a fact that I’ve been actively blocked from a seat on the FAC because over the last three years I’ve been labeled as someone who ‘wants to change the world’ ie- rethink how/why we do stuff

Public sector work isn't really a good place for motivated people looking to affect change.

Great place for unmotivated people who can't really compete within their fields in the private sector tho. Everyone's lazy cousin has to eat too, I suppose. So we have a place for them. But when the lazy cousins are voting, striking, and legislating themselves better meal tickets than hard working Joe's things have gone sideways.

[Zero]

No doubt. This part of it pisses me off, especially as I move through the process into admin. I have to network (fine), I have to show intiative (of course), and I have to have the data to show I know what I’m doing (duh), but I also have to watch out for the status quo folks on campus who don’t want to change much of anything they do, and who have the ear of the admin due to longevity. It’s fucked. I can’t speak truth to power for fear of fucking up future job recommendations, even though there are clear areas of improvement.

I know for a fact that I’ve been actively blocked from a seat on the FAC because over the last three years I’ve been labeled as someone who ‘wants to change the world’ ie- rethink how/why we do stuff

Public sector work isn't really a good place for motivated people looking to affect change.

Great place for unmotivated people who can't really compete within their fields in the private sector tho. Everyone's lazy cousin has to eat too, I suppose. So we have a place for them. But when the lazy cousins are voting, striking, and legislating themselves better meal tickets than hard working Joe's things have gone sideways.

I’ve got hope. I’d say the people who still think it’s 1995 are becoming a minority (albeit with an outsize voice). About 1/3 staff are hot for change, and about 1/3 are followers, but good natured. Most of them aren’t lazy, they just aren’t being led all that well. Most of the department chairs and the principal think of themselves as managers, rather than leaders.

[de officiis]

Full disclosure, this issue impacts my family IRL. Not only do I have children in one of the school districts mentioned but my family is also tied to the KY teachers retirement plan.

Kentucky’s two largest school districts in Jefferson and Fayette counties were among 26 across the state that closed schools Friday after hundreds of school employees refused to work following the legislature’s passage of pension reform.

Fayette County District spokeswoman Lisa Deffendall said on Thursday night, more than 1,200 school employees reported they would be absent

The news came after the state legislature passed a surprise pension-reform bill in Frankfort. At least 15 districts said they were closing because of teacher absences. About another 10 closed Friday morning without explanation. In addition, Breathitt County said it’s dismissing at 12 p.m. but gave no public explanation.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/educ ... 99739.html

What's a "surprise" bill?

[jediuser598]

Government employees live in an alternate reality. They really do. People who have worked in both private and public sector jobs know what I’m talking about. There are two completely different incentives motivating the workers.

Private sector jobs are based on performance. Even the lowliest fry cook knows that if they can’t sizzle fries right their ass is going out the door. People get paid because their company makes money. The company doesn’t make money - down it goes, no one gets paid.

Government workers know the government isn’t going anywhere. They perform, they don’t perform, whatever. Public unions have successfully forced government agencies to drag dead weight along for 30 years and give it a pension, because there’s really no advantage to punishing non-performance. I mean, engage the union, fight it in court, weather investigations - for what? For a sloth worker that the faceless taxpayers are on the hook for anyway? Nah. Not worth the trouble.

On the other hand, advancement in government jobs is largely political. You *can* get ahead of your appointed place in the bureaucracy, but not by performance. It’s all through soft skills and building alliances.

So it’s not weird for politicians and other public figures to shower their friends and employees with generous pensions and benefits. It’s a smart move in their world - what better way to win friends and influence people than hooking them up with comfortable retirements? And since “the bottom line” isn’t really part of their reality, they tend to fall into this same stupid pension trap again, and again, and again.

For sure. That part was a shock. "You're going to need friends in order to keep working here." and "If my employees don't like you, why would I like you?" Government employees are fucking crazy.

No doubt. This part of it pisses me off, especially as I move through the process into admin. I have to network (fine), I have to show intiative (of course), and I have to have the data to show I know what I’m doing (duh), but I also have to watch out for the status quo folks on campus who don’t want to change much of anything they do, and who have the ear of the admin due to longevity. It’s fucked. I can’t speak truth to power for fear of fucking up future job recommendations, even though there are clear areas of improvement.

I know for a fact that I’ve been actively blocked from a seat on the FAC because over the last three years I’ve been labeled as someone who ‘wants to change the world’ ie- rethink how/why we do stuff

I don't play politics at all. I just work hard and most of the time that's enough. It is in the private sector. Either getting the corporate metrics and meeting/exceeding them or keeping track of how long it takes me and continually improving in the absence of them. That's what they look for. In the public sector? I asked for them, they looked at me if I were alien. I asked for some feedback and boss was entirely disinterested. They have one gal who only does half the work, and they relay the message every night, but it's a formality. They'd never fire her.

I'd never saw anything like it, and their little battles they do between departments. Wow.

[Martin Hash]

The whole idea of pensions is flawed. The only rule of economics is that production equals consumption, but pensions are based on the concept of storing production and consuming it in the future. Money is imaginary: if everyone saved up $billion so that they could consume-only in the future, what would they eat? It’s almost the same thing as printing $billion for everyone to consume in the future, which is what government pensions are. The entire premise of retirement is make-believe.

[jediuser598]

No doubt. This part of it pisses me off, especially as I move through the process into admin. I have to network (fine), I have to show intiative (of course), and I have to have the data to show I know what I’m doing (duh), but I also have to watch out for the status quo folks on campus who don’t want to change much of anything they do, and who have the ear of the admin due to longevity. It’s fucked. I can’t speak truth to power for fear of fucking up future job recommendations, even though there are clear areas of improvement.

I know for a fact that I’ve been actively blocked from a seat on the FAC because over the last three years I’ve been labeled as someone who ‘wants to change the world’ ie- rethink how/why we do stuff

No one likes a smart cow, lol.

I'm sure a lot of them are nice and all but so many people are very status quo. Think of it this way, how do your managers benefit from a change in the status quo?

For private companies, well it's a good thing, there's a profit motive. More efficiency, less waste, better margins. Man even if you do people tons of good, make positive change, they'll still turn on you if it's against the status quo. People really are creatures of habit.

[Okeefenokee]

Government employees live in an alternate reality. They really do. People who have worked in both private and public sector jobs know what I’m talking about. There are two completely different incentives motivating the workers.

Private sector jobs are based on performance. Even the lowliest fry cook knows that if they can’t sizzle fries right their ass is going out the door. People get paid because their company makes money. The company doesn’t make money - down it goes, no one gets paid.

Government workers know the government isn’t going anywhere. They perform, they don’t perform, whatever. Public unions have successfully forced government agencies to drag dead weight along for 30 years and give it a pension, because there’s really no advantage to punishing non-performance. I mean, engage the union, fight it in court, weather investigations - for what? For a sloth worker that the faceless taxpayers are on the hook for anyway? Nah. Not worth the trouble.

On the other hand, advancement in government jobs is largely political. You *can* get ahead of your appointed place in the bureaucracy, but not by performance. It’s all through soft skills and building alliances.

So it’s not weird for politicians and other public figures to shower their friends and employees with generous pensions and benefits. It’s a smart move in their world - what better way to win friends and influence people than hooking them up with comfortable retirements? And since “the bottom line” isn’t really part of their reality, they tend to fall into this same stupid pension trap again, and again, and again.

I've been saying this. It should be mandatory for everyone to get some time in some form of government/civil work. Even if it's just two summers in college. If everyone got to see it first hand, it would be easier to make the argument that it's a bunch of bullshit.

[Zero]

Government employees live in an alternate reality. They really do. People who have worked in both private and public sector jobs know what I’m talking about. There are two completely different incentives motivating the workers.

Private sector jobs are based on performance. Even the lowliest fry cook knows that if they can’t sizzle fries right their ass is going out the door. People get paid because their company makes money. The company doesn’t make money - down it goes, no one gets paid.

Government workers know the government isn’t going anywhere. They perform, they don’t perform, whatever. Public unions have successfully forced government agencies to drag dead weight along for 30 years and give it a pension, because there’s really no advantage to punishing non-performance. I mean, engage the union, fight it in court, weather investigations - for what? For a sloth worker that the faceless taxpayers are on the hook for anyway? Nah. Not worth the trouble.

On the other hand, advancement in government jobs is largely political. You *can* get ahead of your appointed place in the bureaucracy, but not by performance. It’s all through soft skills and building alliances.

So it’s not weird for politicians and other public figures to shower their friends and employees with generous pensions and benefits. It’s a smart move in their world - what better way to win friends and influence people than hooking them up with comfortable retirements? And since “the bottom line” isn’t really part of their reality, they tend to fall into this same stupid pension trap again, and again, and again.

I've been saying this. It should be mandatory for everyone to get some time in some form of government/civil work. Even if it's just two summers in college. If everyone got to see it first hand, it would be easier to make the argument that it's a bunch of bullshit.

Kasich had an idea like that, but flipped around that would require teachers to work in the ‘real world’ as a sort of internship for part of their summer.

I’d love it if you guys could work for a semester or two in a local school on the other side of the desk and seeing what it’s like. Well, some of you.

Hell, I’d like to require it of legislators before they start opining on what ails education.

It is another reality from the private sector, but not necessarily in a bad way - it’s just a different world, with a host of different considerations. Recognizing that on both sides would be a big step forward.

[Okeefenokee]

Government employees live in an alternate reality. They really do. People who have worked in both private and public sector jobs know what I’m talking about. There are two completely different incentives motivating the workers.

Private sector jobs are based on performance. Even the lowliest fry cook knows that if they can’t sizzle fries right their ass is going out the door. People get paid because their company makes money. The company doesn’t make money - down it goes, no one gets paid.

Government workers know the government isn’t going anywhere. They perform, they don’t perform, whatever. Public unions have successfully forced government agencies to drag dead weight along for 30 years and give it a pension, because there’s really no advantage to punishing non-performance. I mean, engage the union, fight it in court, weather investigations - for what? For a sloth worker that the faceless taxpayers are on the hook for anyway? Nah. Not worth the trouble.

On the other hand, advancement in government jobs is largely political. You *can* get ahead of your appointed place in the bureaucracy, but not by performance. It’s all through soft skills and building alliances.

So it’s not weird for politicians and other public figures to shower their friends and employees with generous pensions and benefits. It’s a smart move in their world - what better way to win friends and influence people than hooking them up with comfortable retirements? And since “the bottom line” isn’t really part of their reality, they tend to fall into this same stupid pension trap again, and again, and again.

I've been saying this. It should be mandatory for everyone to get some time in some form of government/civil work. Even if it's just two summers in college. If everyone got to see it first hand, it would be easier to make the argument that it's a bunch of bullshit.

Kasich had an idea like that, but flipped around that would require teachers to work in the ‘real world’ as a sort of internship for part of their summer.

I’d love it if you guys could work for a semester or two in a local school on the other side of the desk and seeing what it’s like. Well, some of you.

Hell, I’d like to require it of legislators before they start opining on what ails education.

It is another reality from the private sector, but not necessarily in a bad way - it’s just a different world, with a host of different considerations. Recognizing that on both sides would be a big step forward.

I spent my second year of college working a part time tutoring job on campus. I know exactly what the hell goes on, and it's fucking robbery.

[Zero]

I've been saying this. It should be mandatory for everyone to get some time in some form of government/civil work. Even if it's just two summers in college. If everyone got to see it first hand, it would be easier to make the argument that it's a bunch of bullshit.

Kasich had an idea like that, but flipped around that would require teachers to work in the ‘real world’ as a sort of internship for part of their summer.

I’d love it if you guys could work for a semester or two in a local school on the other side of the desk and seeing what it’s like. Well, some of you.

Hell, I’d like to require it of legislators before they start opining on what ails education.

It is another reality from the private sector, but not necessarily in a bad way - it’s just a different world, with a host of different considerations. Recognizing that on both sides would be a big step forward.

I spent my second year of college working a part time tutoring job on campus. I know exactly what the hell goes on, and it's fucking robbery.

Can you elaborate? Genuinely curious.