Republics

[Speaker to Animals]

Simple is the belief that tax revenues always move in the same direction as tax rates.

To borrow from the oft-used minimum wage talking point, if tax rates don’t impact tax revenues why not just tax everything at 1000%?

Just raise minimum wage to $100 an hour ant tax at 1000%, everybody gets rich, all government programs funded, right?

/shrug

Nobody said that, genius. I called out the notion that "lowering taxes increases tax revenue". That's asinine trickle down economics bullshit. Again: go to a university and purchase an actual macroeconomics textbook.

The only way you can see an increase in tax revenue as a result of a decrease in tax rates is if you are past the point of diminishing returns, which we are NOWHERE NEAR right now.

[DBTrek]

Again, if you think tax rates and tax revenues always move in the same direction you’re a moron who can’t grasp something as simple as a supply and demand curve.

[Speaker to Animals]

Again, if you think tax rates and tax revenues always move in the same direction you’re a moron who can’t grasp something as simple as a supply and demand curve.

Again: nobody said that.

[DBTrek]

If you realize that lower tax rates can (and have) fueled more economic activity leading to larger overall tax revenues then I have no idea why you’re arguing with me.

I’ve only stated something you apparently agree with.

[Martin Hash]

Did I mention the $60 trillion “debt” all achieved with lower & lower tax rates. Ideology is blind to math.

Not that Debt means anything: turn up the presses.

[Speaker to Animals]

If you realize that Congress plays accounting gimmicks with different tax brackets and exemptions, youd realize we have not seen the point you described since we dropped the tax rate after the second world war.

We are nowhere near the point where an increase in tax rates would result in a lower tax revenue. Get real, man.

It is easier for Congress to tax the middle class than the wealthy. They will pass "tax cuts" that involve things like permanent reductions on capital gains (which helps the wealthy) and then temporary reductions on income taxes for the middle class. But they couple the latter with removal of various exemptions so it ends up being neutral or a tax increase on the middle class. Tax revenue goes up because they removed exemptions and essentially increased taxes on the middle class.

It is not as simple as saying "look! we lowered taxes and revenues went up y'all!"

If we imagine a nation that has a flat tax rate, and all we did was lower that rate without playing accounting games with various exemptions and credits, the only way you can see an increase in revenue is when you are past that point of diminishing returns as exhibited by the graph Fife posted. We are nowhere near that point and we have such a complex taxation system that you cannot even talk about "lowering taxes" in the abstract without qualifying exactly which taxes are lowered, for which brackets, and what exemptions, credits, and subsidies were altered.

This neocon trickle down economics bullshit is a brain cancer, man.

[DBTrek]

... and as I prepare to drop north of 30k on taxes (just income taxes, not sales, gas, property, all the other little taxes we all pay throughout the year) I’m going to have to disagree that we’re “nowhere close to diminishing returns”.

Maybe the returns aren’t diminishing for you, but they definitely are for me.

As for the “debt” argument - you could liquidate the “rich” entirely and only fund the US government through June.
Maybe taxes aren’t the problem.

[DBTrek]

... and I don’t disagree with your lengthy points in the last post StA, my own points are not in conflict with them. Not advocating trickle down - saying that tax cuts don’t necessarily mean less tax revenue, because Democrats constantly pretend the state is losing money whenever taxes are rolled back and that’s simply not true.

[Fife]

Did I mention the $60 trillion “debt” all achieved with lower & lower tax rates. Ideology is blind to math.

Not that Debt means anything: turn up the presses.

Are you asserting that $60T debt was "all achieved" with low taxes?

Do you allow for any other causes?

[Martin Hash]

No. Economies are built on spending. If you want “balance” (not needed) then tax receipts are too low.