What Is More to Blame (Looking Back)

[Hastur]

The printing press did to the Church then what internet does to the MSM today.

[GloryofGreece]

The printing press did to the Church then what internet does to the MSM today.

Will anything good come of it, did anything really unequivocally "good" come from what the printing press did to the Church?

[TheReal_ND]

Implying the MSM was ever good.

[Fife]

The printing press did to the Church then what internet does to the MSM today.

Who's our internet Jan van Leiden?

[Hastur]

The printing press did to the Church then what internet does to the MSM today.

Will anything good come of it, did anything really unequivocally "good" come from what the printing press did to the Church?

Only everything developed in the west since. Some personal favorites:

Universal suffrage and parliamentarism.

Modern medicine with antibiotics and vaccines.

Freedom of speech and the press.

Automobiles

Airplanes

Modern agriculture

Diplomacy

Semi conductors

The scientific method

Calculus

The novel

Cinema

Internet

Fine tooling and modern metallurgy

Mechanics of materials

Genetics

Political science

Radio and television

I could go on but I'll leave it here. All that comes out of the enlightened west and there is nothing to suggest it would have been developed somewhere else otherwise.

[Speaker to Animals]

It isn't about the Church itself but the role the Church served, and obsessing over the Church is to miss the entire point. It's not even like the Church was ever this monolithic thing some non-Catholics seem to believe. A Catholic university is mostly it's own entity, for example, and they often don't listen to the bishops on spiritual matters at all. Same as it ever was. The Church is a collection of entities all under the spiritual head of the Pope.

But, for a moment, forget about this fucking religious issue. It's a red herring. We could replace the Church with an ecosystem of private entities who do the same thing. We don't need, we never needed, and it deeply harms us as a people to have the state in control of schools, hospitals, welfare and every other fucking thing they never had any business getting involved in. In the American context, that stuff should be reserved to the People. The American People sure as shit won't want the Catholic Church in charge of all of it, though they won't stop the Church from getting involved. So will the Jews and even the Masons with their hospitals.

Yet because of government schools, when you tell somebody something is reserved to the American People, they assume that means we deal with it through government. FUUCCCCKKKK!!

I am not sure most people realize how alienated and dehumanizing this has been for us. Nobody has the moral obligation to help. Let the government deal with it. And now that the state controls everything, they control every little thing about our lives.

I read people bitching about the Church dictating morals to people. Well, now you have state compulsion backed up by organized violence dictating that shit. How do you like them apples??

Again. Stop fixating on the Church and look at what happened to the state.

The Reformation and the Enlightenment were examples of increasing state power and nationalization of resources. I.e. tyranny.


Another thing that the Church provided, which we don't even have any longer, is a kind of appeals court. Since we once all shared the same moral standard, it wasn't that much of a stretch to extend canon law to deal with injustices by secular powers. But the Enlightenment tyrants did a great job of recasting that as a tyranny, and now you have the state in control of the appeals process too.

There exists absolutely no canard to this fucking ship and it's being captained by Captain Ahab. Understand that.

[DBTrek]

Fairly sure diplomacy and political science predate the printing press.

[Hastur]

Fairly sure diplomacy and political science predate the printing press.

OK then. I'll seed those two even if I think those two areas took of like a rocket during and after the enlightenment.

[ssu]

One thing is sure: Reformation and Protestantism didn't make people less religious. On the contrary, Protestants were back then the true extremists of their time.

What actually made the real change was the breakthrough of science and the scientific revolution itself. Not because you had enlightment and the philosophers of that time, but the actual changes that applied science took on. That applied science made the industrial revolution to happen, not philosophers and idealists.

If people here look for the time when atheism really started to emerge, it's really a thing of the 19th Century.

[ssu]

Fairly sure diplomacy and political science predate the printing press.

?

You think there was a political science in the middle ages or what? In 1450 the era of the Renaissance was quite new.

Diplomacy is quite eternal.