Income Inequality

[Speaker to Animals]

Stop being wage serfs, then.

The landscape is not easy. But it's still true in America that if you are willing to work harder than the other guy, you can rise above being a wage serf.

I hate to bring Trump into this, but it's the most available example. Trump won the presidency because he out worked Hillary and was not bound by conventional thinking. While the rest of the GOP saw the Rust Belt as just what the Dems told them it was, a Big Blue Wall, Trump saw opportunity. Then he went in there and outworked her.

Same, same for the average person. If you are willing to look hard for opportunities and outwork the average person you can succeed. But the mind set Meritocracy is no longer talked about, looked at like a virtue or valued in this country. What is sold to us is an easy life, with lots of entertainment and hard work is devalued.

You kind of need to get away from the corporate environment, though. I am not sure you realize how toxic it has become for a healthy man to live and work in an environment like that. Rising above the rest in that environment entails becoming a total cunt.

[C-Mag]

Stop being wage serfs, then.

The landscape is not easy. But it's still true in America that if you are willing to work harder than the other guy, you can rise above being a wage serf.

I hate to bring Trump into this, but it's the most available example. Trump won the presidency because he out worked Hillary and was not bound by conventional thinking. While the rest of the GOP saw the Rust Belt as just what the Dems told them it was, a Big Blue Wall, Trump saw opportunity. Then he went in there and outworked her.

Same, same for the average person. If you are willing to look hard for opportunities and outwork the average person you can succeed. But the mind set Meritocracy is no longer talked about, looked at like a virtue or valued in this country. What is sold to us is an easy life, with lots of entertainment and hard work is devalued.

You kind of need to get away from the corporate environment, though. I am not sure you realize how toxic it has become for a healthy man to live and work in an environment like that. Rising above the rest in that environment entails becoming a total cunt.

Yes and No. I would have to say you must at least understand the Corporate Environment for what it is, compartmentalize it, and don't let it run your life away from work. Then do something beyond your normal work week for income. This requires sacrifice, and a lot of hard work and long hours.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Stop being wage serfs, then. The internet provides some options.

Hell, if you go freelance as a software developer or something, you can go live and work out of Bocas del Toro. You could take a huge pay cut and still live okay there.

Or you can go into business for yourselves, but I suspect if you guys did that you'd change your tune about the evil businesses right quick.

There's no conceivable business that I'd actually want to run, given the risk to the well-being of my family, the insane difficulty of getting enough credit, the regulations involved, and the impossibility of competing with corporations.

Remove those issues, and I'd just grow and sell food from home. I'd be a farmer.

So if you took on that risk, including the uncertainty of cyclical trends on your revenue, how would you feel about employees deciding they deserve a huge percentage of your revenue, when you may or may not even be turning a profit, because "productivity"?

It's not that I don't sympathize with your argument, but I suspect running a business like that is not as profitable as many on the left imagine.

When you are talking about a huge corporation, sure. But those are no longer acceptable places for a man to work unless he is temporarily trapped in it.

My dad has owned a business since I was a teenager. I'm well aware of the work involved, and very much aware of the profitability. Yes, if you have a successful business, and work your ass off, you can make WAY MORE than enough money to support your family. He currently runs his business in between trips around the world, and Disney World. He also plays high level poker most of the week, just to keep active.

I've confronted him more than a few times about what a 'fair wage' means, and his answer is usually some version of how most people just aren't motivated enough to do what he did. I counter with a run-down of how he got there, and ask where the hell those opportunities are for any of his wage slaves. His only response is a shrug and "i dunno", then we change subjects.

In short, yes, it is more than possible to succeed for some, but not possible for all. If you get lucky enough for your level of effort to make a difference, then you are in fact living the American Dream. For a great majority of Americans though, that's not a possibility. Nobody in the world is 'trying harder' than a good wage slave, and they will never get off the bottom. Low-level management is the peak of that hill.

[Speaker to Animals]

The landscape is not easy. But it's still true in America that if you are willing to work harder than the other guy, you can rise above being a wage serf.

I hate to bring Trump into this, but it's the most available example. Trump won the presidency because he out worked Hillary and was not bound by conventional thinking. While the rest of the GOP saw the Rust Belt as just what the Dems told them it was, a Big Blue Wall, Trump saw opportunity. Then he went in there and outworked her.

Same, same for the average person. If you are willing to look hard for opportunities and outwork the average person you can succeed. But the mind set Meritocracy is no longer talked about, looked at like a virtue or valued in this country. What is sold to us is an easy life, with lots of entertainment and hard work is devalued.

You kind of need to get away from the corporate environment, though. I am not sure you realize how toxic it has become for a healthy man to live and work in an environment like that. Rising above the rest in that environment entails becoming a total cunt.

Yes and No. I would have to say you must at least understand the Corporate Environment for what it is, compartmentalize it, and don't let it run your life away from work. Then do something beyond your normal work week for income. This requires sacrifice, and a lot of hard work and long hours.

I don't think you realize how dangerous it actually is right now.

[Speaker to Animals]

There's no conceivable business that I'd actually want to run, given the risk to the well-being of my family, the insane difficulty of getting enough credit, the regulations involved, and the impossibility of competing with corporations.

Remove those issues, and I'd just grow and sell food from home. I'd be a farmer.

So if you took on that risk, including the uncertainty of cyclical trends on your revenue, how would you feel about employees deciding they deserve a huge percentage of your revenue, when you may or may not even be turning a profit, because "productivity"?

It's not that I don't sympathize with your argument, but I suspect running a business like that is not as profitable as many on the left imagine.

When you are talking about a huge corporation, sure. But those are no longer acceptable places for a man to work unless he is temporarily trapped in it.

My dad has owned a business since I was a teenager. I'm well aware of the work involved, and very much aware of the profitability. Yes, if you have a successful business, and work your ass off, you can make WAY MORE than enough money to support your family. He currently runs his business in between trips around the world, and Disney World. He also plays high level poker most of the week, just to keep active.

I've confronted him more than a few times about what a 'fair wage' means, and his answer is usually some version of how most people just aren't motivated enough to do what he did. I counter with a run-down of how he got there, and ask where the hell those opportunities are for any of his wage slaves. His only response is a shrug and "i dunno", then we change subjects.

In short, yes, it is more than possible to succeed for some, but not possible for all. If you get lucky enough for your level of effort to make a difference, then you are in fact living the American Dream. For a great majority of Americans though, that's not a possibility. Nobody in the world is 'trying harder' than a good wage slave, and they will never get off the bottom. Low-level management is the peak of that hill.

That's the corporate hill, you mean, which I specifically pointed out is not a great place for you to be -- and it's your choice to be there.

[SuburbanFarmer]

So if you took on that risk, including the uncertainty of cyclical trends on your revenue, how would you feel about employees deciding they deserve a huge percentage of your revenue, when you may or may not even be turning a profit, because "productivity"?

It's not that I don't sympathize with your argument, but I suspect running a business like that is not as profitable as many on the left imagine.

When you are talking about a huge corporation, sure. But those are no longer acceptable places for a man to work unless he is temporarily trapped in it.

My dad has owned a business since I was a teenager. I'm well aware of the work involved, and very much aware of the profitability. Yes, if you have a successful business, and work your ass off, you can make WAY MORE than enough money to support your family. He currently runs his business in between trips around the world, and Disney World. He also plays high level poker most of the week, just to keep active.

I've confronted him more than a few times about what a 'fair wage' means, and his answer is usually some version of how most people just aren't motivated enough to do what he did. I counter with a run-down of how he got there, and ask where the hell those opportunities are for any of his wage slaves. His only response is a shrug and "i dunno", then we change subjects.

In short, yes, it is more than possible to succeed for some, but not possible for all. If you get lucky enough for your level of effort to make a difference, then you are in fact living the American Dream. For a great majority of Americans though, that's not a possibility. Nobody in the world is 'trying harder' than a good wage slave, and they will never get off the bottom. Low-level management is the peak of that hill.

That's the corporate hill, you mean, which I specifically pointed out is not a great place for you to be -- and it's your choice to be there.

Well, we were looking at a house for sale with an old meat market on the property. It looks like it would take a hell of a lot of work to get going as a country store, but I'd like to try.

The issue of course, is convincing a bankster to lend me enough money to do it, despite my excellent payment record on the college degree that I've never used. (Yes, it was used to check an HR dept box on my job application)

Then there's managing my time between that, maintaining an income, and raising kids. These are not small obstacles. So, my main effort outside of work has revolved around home improvement and equity building.

[Speaker to Animals]

This was an interesting interview that covers how untenable the corporate environment has become for men. Also some interesting ideas on how this global economic system has become a kind of beast that subjugates us and dehumanizes us.

https://soundcloud.com/rightonradio/37- ... rey-savage

[PartyOf5]

The issue of course, is convincing a bankster to lend me enough money to do it, despite my excellent payment record on the college degree that I've never used. (Yes, it was used to check an HR dept box on my job application)

Why not ask your dad to help you out? He's a business owner, and fro your description of him he has the money to lend you.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The issue of course, is convincing a bankster to lend me enough money to do it, despite my excellent payment record on the college degree that I've never used. (Yes, it was used to check an HR dept box on my job application)

Why not ask your dad to help you out? He's a business owner, and fro your description of him he has the money to lend you.

He's decided to "let me" make it on my own. Something that I'm not sure how to react to, and choose to ignore in our relationship.

Fucking boomers.

[PartyOf5]

I think that it is an issue without an easy solution. It's complicated.

The tech revolution completely changed the relationship between pay and productivity. Just because I can now do things on a computer in 1/100th the time it used to take my using paper and pencil doesn't mean I should now get paid 100x as much.

Yes, it absolutely does mean that. Productivity is the measure of Revenue generated per employee. Your employer is gaining 100x the amount of revenue from your work, yet you are being paid the same. If there's no connection between that, then why bother learning new skills? This is why we have 'skill inflation' - you have to be MUCH more learned to fulfill the same function, for the same pay, as what your father did. Not only that, but you're taking on DEBT to get that learning.

Productivity is not the measure of revenue generated. My getting something done 100x faster <> employer gaining 100x the revenue. Making burgers at twice the pace does not equal twice the numbers of burgers sold.

I learn new skills to ensure that I am a valuable asset to an employer. Being a valuable asset to an employer will usually get you an increase in salary. If not, and you feel you are worth more, then use those skills to get a new job that will pay you more. Being more learned than our fathers is another non-equivalency. A lot of our fathers held down jobs that don't exist anymore, so there is no "same function". Not to mention there is no way you're not making more than they did for the same function.