Free College in San Francisco

apeman
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by apeman » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:04 am

PartyOf5 wrote:
BjornP wrote:A healthy, civilized society needs more than engineers, scientists and doctors. It needs to be able to reflect upon itself. Freely. No matter in which way.
Arts and non-technical education is a valuable piece of a society.
Sure are, anyone who wants such education can get it for absolutely free, in the comfort of their own home, taking free classes from the best universities in the world, with free books from the library and internet. I do this, my wife does this, I imagine most of you do, hell, hardcore history does this even tho it isn't academic history. As a bonus, because the world belongs to self-learners and self-starters, pursuing your very own arts and no-tech education may reinforce the most important qualities needed for success. Rn I am taking guitar lessons for free through youtube and other sources, and checked out muscic-theory-for-idiots-type books from my library.

Formal school is about accreditation.

Who needs formal accreditation in arts etc?

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Fife
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by Fife » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:05 am

apeman wrote:Who needs formal accreditation in arts etc?
But, how can you have any pudding if you won't eat your meat?

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The Conservative
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by The Conservative » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:06 am

Fife wrote:
apeman wrote:Who needs formal accreditation in arts etc?
But, how can you have any pudding if you won't eat your meat?
Good song, they don't make them like that any more.
#NotOneRedCent

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BjornP
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by BjornP » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:13 am

PartyOf5 wrote:
BjornP wrote:A healthy, civilized society needs more than engineers, scientists and doctors. It needs to be able to reflect upon itself. Freely. No matter in which way.
Arts and non-technical education is a valuable piece of a society. The problem we're seeing in the US is that too many kids are going into college for degrees in things that do not have many jobs, but they come out of college with a degree and feel that they are automatically owed a high paying job of their choice because of it.

I disagree with STA that there are not enough jobs. There are shortages in jobs like welding, but schools aren't directing kids down those paths. What we have right now are too many kids with degrees that are not needed by our economy. But they feel entitled (I think that is a fitting word) to something the economy/society has determined is not needed. I don't mean that arts aren't need at all, but we don't need as many of them as are getting degrees. The result are events like OWS and BLM where all these unemployed or under employed people with grievances against the rest of society get together and tantrum because they don't want the hard, thankless jobs that are necessary to a society.
Ok. Obviously, there are differences in how higher education is structured and prioritized in the US. We have a higher unemployment rate amongst architects (32.3) than MA's in Humanities (15.7). Doctors, especially specialists, though... we have to import them now.

Yet I believe our universities are also good at teaching how the methods learned in one discipline, can be applied creatively in others. Sure, a MA in litterature may not sound like a very worthwhile education, but you can apply the methods they learn to other fields, across sectors. I was on the path to an MA as "Information Administration" (the education that makes you an archivist). An education where you need a BA in history to apply, and where most of the focus is on historical records and audiovisual media. That education could certainly be applied beyond simply historical archives.

Aside from the specific classes devoted to becoming an archivist, though, there were guest lectures by people who had gotten the same education you had, with them telling how they could apply the methods in whatever work they now had. Which was usually not the one they pictured. On the more practical level, unions can sort you out with additional, smaller courses that compliment your education.

As for jobs like welding, and government generally over-focusing on academic jobs: We had sewing and crafts in my school from I think it was in 3rd grade, shop class in 5th to 7th grade (mostly just carpentry). Then, in 9th grade, students must pick someplace to apprentice or intern to for two weeks, which could be any place of employment that would have you as, basicly (school and parent had to approve, of course). The workmen/craftsmen sort of educations still earn general respect, but there was a period of about a decade before 2008 where the government kept trying to encourage students to take a higher education. Recession sort of sorted of ended that trend, but what central government wants and what the actual educators do were fortunately two different things, so people weren't pushed into picking academia if they would be better as bricklayers.

If society, or simply just the politicians elected, think non-academic jobs incredibly "low prestige", they may be tempted to believe that that should not be a priority for education at large. Some do, after all, equal prestige to what's actually important.

Is it really the schools, as in the actual teachers directing the teachers toward academic rather than craftman's paths? Even if students would seem otherwise more suited, or even personally prefer, to become mechanics, bricklayers, carpenters, etc.? In Denmark, that was more the successive governments trying to peddle that story to local municipalities, and local teachers in those municipalities still directing kids who showed desire and skill at non-academic jobs towards the appropriate educations.
Fame is not flattery. Respect is not agreement.

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BjornP
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by BjornP » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:54 am

apeman wrote:
PartyOf5 wrote:
BjornP wrote:A healthy, civilized society needs more than engineers, scientists and doctors. It needs to be able to reflect upon itself. Freely. No matter in which way.
Arts and non-technical education is a valuable piece of a society.
Sure are, anyone who wants such education can get it for absolutely free, in the comfort of their own home, taking free classes from the best universities in the world, with free books from the library and internet. I do this, my wife does this, I imagine most of you do, hell, hardcore history does this even tho it isn't academic history. As a bonus, because the world belongs to self-learners and self-starters, pursuing your very own arts and no-tech education may reinforce the most important qualities needed for success. Rn I am taking guitar lessons for free through youtube and other sources, and checked out muscic-theory-for-idiots-type books from my library.

Formal school is about accreditation.

Who needs formal accreditation in arts etc?
Those best universities in the world, apparantly. :roll:
Fame is not flattery. Respect is not agreement.

apeman
Posts: 1566
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:33 am

Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by apeman » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:39 am

BjornP wrote:Who needs formal accreditation in arts etc?
Those best universities in the world, apparantly. :roll:[/quote]

:roll:

Okeefenokee
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by Okeefenokee » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:26 pm

PartyOf5 wrote:
BjornP wrote:A healthy, civilized society needs more than engineers, scientists and doctors. It needs to be able to reflect upon itself. Freely. No matter in which way.
Arts and non-technical education is a valuable piece of a society. The problem we're seeing in the US is that too many kids are going into college for degrees in things that do not have many jobs, but they come out of college with a degree and feel that they are automatically owed a high paying job of their choice because of it.

I disagree with STA that there are not enough jobs. There are shortages in jobs like welding, but schools aren't directing kids down those paths. What we have right now are too many kids with degrees that are not needed by our economy. But they feel entitled (I think that is a fitting word) to something the economy/society has determined is not needed. I don't mean that arts aren't need at all, but we don't need as many of them as are getting degrees. The result are events like OWS and BLM where all these unemployed or under employed people with grievances against the rest of society get together and tantrum because they don't want the hard, thankless jobs that are necessary to a society.
Stop trying to fuck over the welders. They make a good wage because people think welding is below them, leaving welders in demand. They got a good thing going, same as most other trades.

I swear, it's like I'm the only one that gets this. The only reason tradesmen can support their families is because they aren't ashamed to do jobs that the rest of society consider to be beneath them. They aren't so full of themselves that they won't work with their hands, and as a result, they do far better than these unemployed liberal arts majors.

If you convince these drama queens that being a tradesmen is respectable and trendy, they are going to flood the labor pool and fuck over all the existing tradesmen by driving down the price of labor.

We want three tiers in the workforce. STEM, Tradesmen, Baristas. STEM people do STEM things, and get paid well. When something breaks, STEM people call Tradesmen to fix it, and pay them well for being noble and honorable working men. Baristas languish under college loan debt, rightly so, and stupidly give their money to STEM people for the next new iPhone, instead of going back to school, because gosh darnit, this acting career is gonna take off any day now. The rest of their Barista money goes to their parents to rent out the basement, who then give it to the Tradesmen when something breaks.

Stop trying to fuck this up. This is the way it should be.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

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Okeefenokee
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by Okeefenokee » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:28 pm

apeman wrote:Formal school is about accreditation.

Who needs formal accreditation in arts etc?
This.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

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clubgop
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by clubgop » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:25 pm

Wait, hol up! Only 5 post mocking little Miss Prim and Proper spelling college wrong in the god damn title of the thread? Tsk tsk, I am disappointed in the civility of this board.

Okeefenokee
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Re: Free Collage in San Francisco

Post by Okeefenokee » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:30 am

clubgop wrote:Wait, hol up! Only 5 post mocking little Miss Prim and Proper spelling college wrong in the god damn title of the thread? Tsk tsk, I am disappointed in the civility of this board.
The a isn't even close enough to the e for it to be fat finger.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751