U.S.-Russia relations

[Smitty-48]

The other thing for the Kremlin, is that no matter what the US says its intentions are, they don't neccesarily buy it, Trump is saying that he will be launching into a military build up, if he does that, that's going to set the Russians off, regardless of what Trump claims the intentions are therein, an arms race is an arms race is an arms race, and the Kremlin judges America's intentions based on America's inherent military capabilities, not America's words.

To wit, if Trump says "lets be freindly" but then goes and continues to deploy Ballistic Missile Defense and Prompt Global Strike, the Russians will respond in kind and agressively so, it's not really about NATO, it's about what America brings to NATO, in terms of destabilizing mutual vulnerability by way of strategic arms race, which the Russians do not accept as not being pointed at them.

[ssu]

Smitty has pretty well already summed up what is important. Your aren't dealing with ordinary Russians, your dealing with a small cabal of siloviks in the Kremlin.

And the simple thing is that Putin's Russia sees the US as an adversary. He needs for himself that the US is an adversary to Russia. Then it doesn't matter what Americans think. "Well, I don't have anything against the Russians, so why don't we have better relations? I would be OK with that." is a common idea purposed here. Well, Putin is against your government so he isn't going to play ball like other countries.

Two countries wanting to improve their relations usually understand that they have different objectives and agenda, which they have to try to sort out in such a way that problems won't rise and make decisions that are mutually beneficial for both countries. That's a normal relationship between two countries. With a country that is adversial, it doesn't go like that. Then the objective one country is to do harm for to other country, to worsen the position of the other and improve one's own position unilaterally. If the other country then tries a friendly opening, like "lets forget our past problems and start over", then that is an opportunity to milk as much from the other one before relations get worse again.

The window of opportunity when Russia wanted to play along with the West, maybe join it has long since closed.

[nickle7]

Alright, you've got me thinking. Is it fair to say that Putin wants to return Russia to the "glory days" of the USSR? If so, I guess it would prove your point. Are there any interests or parts of interests that the two countries align on?

[Smitty-48]

Well, Putin is against your government so he isn't going to play ball like other countries. .

It's not just the government, it's not just that they won't play ball, this is the mistake that people make in America, it's not about quid pro quo, there can be no "reset", because it is revanchsim in the classic sense, from the sloviks point of view, they were stabbed in the back by the November Criminals, and the international conspiracy who is responsible, is the American republic itself.

There's nothing Americans can give them, which will slake their revanchism, they don't want concessions from America, they want America to burn.

We're talking about a Russian mafia here, they ain't the bourgoisie, what they want from America, is America to drink polonium in the tea.

They can't bring the Soviet Union back, they know that, but it is a grave error to think that these men would not go to war for its own sake therein, they are not out for quid pro quo, they are out for revenge.

Yes, they are rational actors, but they are acting rationally, as Russian gangsters, with a blood fued.

[TheReal_ND]

Alright, you've got me thinking. Is it fair to say that Putin wants to return Russia to the "glory days" of the USSR? If so, I guess it would prove your point. Are there any interests or parts of interests that the two countries align on?

Putin can't get Belarus let alone Ukraine. There is no going back to the USSR days.

[Smitty-48]

Alright, you've got me thinking. Is it fair to say that Putin wants to return Russia to the "glory days" of the USSR? If so, I guess it would prove your point. Are there any interests or parts of interests that the two countries align on?

Putin can't get Belarus let alone Ukraine. There is no going back to the USSR days.

It's not about taking it all and turning it into a model soviet republic, whatever in the Near Abroad they cannot have, they are out to destroy, scorched earth for the November Criminals who stabbed them in the back.

[TheReal_ND]

No. that's just silly. Economic models suggest they would be just fine selling natural gas while crude is over $80 a barrel.

[Smitty-48]

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand the Russians, they're not Western, they're not Bourgoise, they're not Technocrats, they live by an ancient code, whether they be in jail, or the army, or the Kremlin, no matter.

The sloviks have stars on the knees, just as any other Russian theives by law.

[TheReal_ND]

That's like saying the Triad is out to destroy the People's Republic of China. It's nonsense. Gangsters they may be, does not make a geopolitical crises.

[Smitty-48]

No, it's like saying that the Triads are the People's Republic of China, and all the Russian sloviks do, is incite geopolitical crises, and very deliberately so, because that is in the end, the source of all their power and prerogatives, their very raison d'etre.

Without geopolitical crisis, they have no reason to exist, they have no hold over the Russian state, so geopolitcal crises, is baked into the slovik cake.