Our Guy Flynn

[StCapps]

I think Trump is actually running scared from it, I think the lawyers told him that this could catch him up in a jackpot, and that's why Trump through Flynn under the bus, if Trump wasn't running from it, he woudl have backed Flynn up, I don't buy this "oh, we were about to fire Flynn anyways, throwing Flynn under the bus has nothing to do with the Logan Act.."

You said throwing Flynn under the bus was a message to the GOP establishment insiders that the outsiders are on their way out and to hop on board now to fill out his cabinet so he can get shit done. Now you make a huge leap and turn into a conspiracy nut who thinks Flynn might be caught dead to rights violating the Logan Act and Trump is running scared that he'll roll on him.

Stick with your previous assumption, it makes you seem a whole lot smarter.

[Smitty-48]

If the intelligence agencies have Flynn recorded commiting a felony, that changes everything, I assumed that Flynn did not actually make a quid pro quo, I was under the impression that Flynn would have done it on the DL, imply that the Russians should just wait out and see what happens, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, with plausible deniability, but now I'm reading that they have the intercepts which put Flynn in a quid pro quo, which would be a felony, at which point, Flynn would be getting tossed under the bus in an emergency fall on your sword Ollie North scenario, which would explain why it turned so fast and so decisively, without putting up any fight whatsoever, only three weeks in, which is the weirdest Presidential firing since Watergate actually.

Who fires anybody in 24 days? Something is making Flynn so radioactive, that he had to be thrown under the bus, imeaditately, without further ado, emergency fall on your sword right this instant.

[StCapps]

If the intelligence agencies have Flynn recorded commiting a felony, that changes everything,

That's a big "IF". So far all the media has is wishful thinking from what I have seen.

I assumed that Flynn did not actually make a quid pro quo, I was under the impression that Flynn would have done it on the DL, imply that the Russians should just wait out and see what happens, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, with plausible deniability, but now I'm reading that they have the intercepts which put Flynn in a quid pro quo, which would be a felony, at which point, Flynn would be getting tossed under the bus in an emergency fall on your sword Ollie North scenario.

Right well I'm not buying that they have the quid pro quo on tape until actual evidence is presented, unnamed sources mean fuck all, so far the media is just hoping it's true because they want to hurt Trump.

[Smitty-48]

Well, I think they did it, I think Flynn is guilty, I think Trump ordered him to do it, and I think the NSA was listening, considering how fast and refelxively they got rid of Flynn, they're seeming pretty guilty therein, so the unnamed sources are seeming more credible, based on the panicked reaction at the WH.'

Firing someone central to the team, straight out of the gate, only 24 days in, is not normal, that is panic.

[ssu]

If Trump & Co really are trashing Flynn as being "disloyal" and an "embarassment", they are playing with fire, because Flynn was just an emissary of the President, he's not going to make these sorts of assurances unless he's getting it straight from the top, so if charges come down on Flynn, he then holds the fate of the Presidency in the palm of his hands.

This is what I don't understand from Trump: why on Earth is he giving (through Spicer) a tough time for the fall guy? Nobody in their right mind can think Flynn went rogue here. As you said, it's obvious that Trump called the shots on this: Flynn wouldn't be so utterly crazy to start this kind of scheme alone. But the thing is to portray it so that the Republicans in the Congress can go along and act as it was Flynn doing his own. Iran-Contra is a classic example on how you put a fall guy out there and have the President "out-of-loop". People didn't have a problem with the picture that Ronnie was out of the loop, drawing cartoons on the side of the memo or something as the weapons-for-hostages deal was talked about.

Yet here is what the White House is saying:

“We’ve been reviewing and evaluating this issue with respect to General Flynn on a daily basis for a few weeks, trying to ascertain the truth,” Spicer said at the daily White House press briefing. He emphasized that an internal White House inquiry had concluded that nothing Flynn discussed with the Russian was illegal but that he had “broken trust” with Trump by not telling the truth about the talks.

You leave the fall guy alone, not tell that you have had "internal inquiries" and that he had "broken trust". Of course there is a cacophony on how the events went, typical to Trump's White House, starting with the different versions of Flynn being first fired and then that he resigned. You just say that he had bad judgement or whatever and let it be. Not make his bad situation worse.

If Republicans start to OK with Pence and Pence has no links to this mess (nobody is saying so, even if it actually was Manafort alongside Jared Kushner who made Trump to pick Pence and not fatso with a bridge-problem), they might go along a road that leads to a Pence-administration.

The Russia mess isn't going anywhere now.

[StCapps]

Well, I think they did it, I think Flynn is guilty, I think Trump ordered him to do it, and I think the NSA was listening, considering how fast and refelxively they got rid of Flynn, they're seeming pretty guilty therein, so the unnamed sources are seeming more credible, based on the panicked reaction at the WH.'

Firing someone central to the team, straight out of the gate, only 24 days in, is not normal, that is panic.

If the media thinks it's true, it probably isn't. Their track record when it comes to Trump is terrible and I don't buy their version of events, they are biased as all get out. Maybe Flynn was never considered that central to the team, and maybe Trump isn't panicking at all.

Trump is known for firing people after all, having someone resign should not be considered a sign of panic even if it happens far sooner than expected. If Flynn is expendable as you suggest, than the reason to scrap him does not need to be earth shattering, so don't assume that it is just because the media wishes it were so. Wait for more than anonymous sources dude, you used to have higher standards than this when it came to media obviously attempting to slander Trump and his political allies. Don't let your guard now.

[Smitty-48]

The Russia mess isn't going anywhere now.

The thing is, Flynn has been talking to the Russians for months, and no doubt the NSA has it all on tape, so who says this is the only thing they have on Flynn?

They may just be springing this stuff on them now, but only giving it to them a bit at a time, so that they dig themselves deeper into the jackpot, then later they will release more, and, as you say, ssu, if the WH is going to stomp on Flynn from a very great height, even after he has fallen on his sword, that is playing with fire, if/when the charges on Flynn started to pile up.

[StCapps]

The thing is, Flynn has been talking to the Russians for months, and no doubt the NSA has it all on tape, so who says this is the only thing they have on Flynn? They may just be springing this stuff on them now, but only giving it to them a bit at a time, so that they dig themselves deeper into the jackpot, then later they will release more, and, as you say, ssu, if they are going to try to stomp on Flynn from a very great height, even after he has fallen on his sword, that is playing with fire, if/when the charges on Flynn started to pile up.

Or maybe they have nothing and want to seem like they are setting a trap to make Trump or Flynn play it dumb and somehow actually give them something. That is the more likely possibility, the media actually having Flynn dead to rights because he is like the dumbest person alive with that level of security clearance, that is a lot less likely.

Maybe Flynn is really that next level dumb, but I'm going to need to see more than the bullshit the media have dug up thus far to buy that, and so should you.

[Smitty-48]

If the media thinks it's true, it probably isn't. Their track record when it comes to Trump is terrible and I don't buy their version of events, they are biased as all get out. Maybe Flynn was never considered that central to the team, and maybe Trump isn't panicking at all.

The media is baised, but I don't doubt that CNN has sources with access to SIGINT, I'm sure those sources are biased as well, or they wouldn't be leaking, but I don't think they would fabricate the leak out of whole cloth, if they are leaking that they got Flynn dead to rights, then they got Flynn dead to rights.

I don't buy that Flynn was not central to the team, Flynn was at the very top with total access to the President, one of the most trusted advisors, in the inner circle, clearly, you don't get to be National Security Advisor if you are just a throw away, if Trump had not suddenly demanded that Flynn fall on his sword, on the drop of a hat, I would not be smelling panic, but because they did, because they turned on Flynn so completely and so precipitously, after only three weeks, without putting up any sort of resistance, now I am smelling panic, that's a panicky thing to do, dictionary defintion of.

[Smitty-48]

I mean, if Flynn is not working out, then Flynn is not working out, but in that case, you get rid of him at the time and place of your choosing, down the road, when you have a replacement all lined up, you don't do it three weeks in, overnight, emergency jettison under a cloud of scandal... unless of course, the scandal is the real deal, and you're doing it in a panic, because Flynn is a jackpot which goes all the way to the top.