Social Justice Warriors Thread

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

We established that ethnicity isn't static, and then you change the subject to blah blah Arabs.

I am beginning to suspect that your ethnic categories change to suite whatever argument you are trying to make.

It's a meaningless point, Hanarchy. Everything changes over time, even races. Is that why Iraq is such a lovely place in the springtime, because Sunni and Shia are all in flux and they are "All Iraqis"? Do the Hutu and Tutsi really just love each other if only they could accept that "everything is in flux" and they are all Rwandans?


Get real. This is a really bad idea you are defending here. You are ALWAYS playing with fire when you mix disparate nations of people. The more differences the more dangerous and the more explosive the outcome could become.

Thus the tautology emerges.

Anytime a conflict erupts anywhere, you say it is ethnic/cultural. And as evidence, well, the obvious truth that ethnic and cultural differences cause conflict.

Ergo, people can only collaborate if they are sufficiently homogeneous, that sufficiency to be determined by your baroque and interlocking theories about what defines an ethnic group.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Ethnic Germans and Italians were still European peoples with a common race, history, and even civilization.
You cannot compare that to non-western, non-European peoples migrating here who share literally nothing in common other than species.
They have as little in common with us as we did with the natives..

America is an idea, not an ethnicity.
The Era of EthnoStatism is quickly dwindling with the advent of Global interconnectivity.
Yet ideas can still unite people, ask the Jews.

So the trick is to get everyone coming into the nation to get onboard with Americanism. To get them to embrace America and its ideals. If they do that, it won't matter where they came from.

If they won't do that, then yeah, you have a bunch of competing identities fighting for control of the same piece of land and that's going to be a disaster.

Well, the problem is that the idea that "America is an idea" is slipping away.

No it isn't. It is just being loudly denied by a tiny fraction of malcontents.

[DBTrek]

Not such a tiny faction of malcontents, I fear.
A too large faction of malcontents whose grasp has extended from silly protests to the NFL, Google, and the DoD.

[The Conservative]

America is an idea, not an ethnicity.
The Era of EthnoStatism is quickly dwindling with the advent of Global interconnectivity.
Yet ideas can still unite people, ask the Jews.

So the trick is to get everyone coming into the nation to get onboard with Americanism. To get them to embrace America and its ideals. If they do that, it won't matter where they came from.

If they won't do that, then yeah, you have a bunch of competing identities fighting for control of the same piece of land and that's going to be a disaster.

Well, the problem is that the idea that "America is an idea" is slipping away.

No it isn't. It is just being loudly denied by a tiny fraction of malcontents.

Can we bring back the fire and pitchforks to get rid of them please?

[Speaker to Animals]

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I'm sure all the retired US soldiers of black/hispanic descent who spent their lives defending America have their own views on StA's idea that their ethnicity prevents them from being actual Americans, as do I.

Where in the fuck did I say that?

Do you see what I mean about people not being able to defend these ideas honestly!? They are not able to be honest about it because they know they have no good answers for all the failures of the very thing they defend. So their last ditch tactic is to scream racist.

Well, it doesn't work any longer. The truth of these failures is manifest. You can go on dismissing all the minorities who are complaining about how bad it is for them to live like this and pretend like they just don't know how happy they are all day. That's not going to change anything any more effectively than labeling white people racist for the same thing.

I am not saying these people are not "Americans". I am saying that we have so diluted the meaning of American, that the only thing you have left to tie it all together is a nebulous idea which always was nothing more than a fable -- and everybody knows it. It's not enough. The idea of America -- a civic nationalist paradise -- is not enough. Look around you for fuck sake.

[DBTrek]

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I'm sure all the retired US soldiers of black/hispanic descent who spent their lives defending America have their own views on StA's idea that their ethnicity prevents them from being actual Americans, as do I.

Where in the fuck did I say that?

It's your entire argument.
MULTICULTURALISM DOES NOT WORK - your entire thesis, you spelled it out in all caps.

And yet . . . we have countless examples of it working in the past and in the present.
So go ahead and tell the retired black veterans and the retired hispanic veterans "Thanks for your lifetime of service defending the ideals of America, but I'm sorry, you're too ethnic and multicultural to be part of America. Only white Christians actually have a place here. MULTICULTURALISM DOES NOT WORK!"

I invite you to give that speech at any VFW of your choosing, please be sure to video tape it for us.

[The Conservative]

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[C-Mag]

There is a huge difference between having a Multi Cultural Society and the Multiculturism Movement.
Multi Cultural Societies can still be based on assimilation and having a national identity.

Multiculturism is all about lack of assimilation, open borders, etc. and is doomed to fail.

[DBTrek]

There is a huge difference between having a Multi Cultural Society and the Multiculturism Movement.
Multi Cultural Societies can still be based on assimilation and having a national identity.

Multiculturism is all about lack of assimilation, open borders, etc. and is doomed to fail.

I think I've pointed out that assimilation to a national identity is key.
I'm also pointing out that in the past we've had people of all creeds and color on board with American values.
So this idea that it's impossible is clearly false.

To reiterate that point, I invite anyone who feels to the contrary to express their views to minority veterans who spent their lives in service of America.
If someone really feels that America is doomed to fail because we don't look/pray similarly enough, they should be comfortable making that speech to the target audience, right?

Nothing magical happened between WWII and now. Patriotic blacks, Hispanics, Jews, whoever, are still completely capable of being patriotic and pro American. So this entire line of reasoning that somehow different ethnicities/cultures randomly evolved to make compatibility impossible in 2017 is puzzling.

[The Conservative]

There is a huge difference between having a Multi Cultural Society and the Multiculturism Movement.
Multi Cultural Societies can still be based on assimilation and having a national identity.

Multiculturism is all about lack of assimilation, open borders, etc. and is doomed to fail.

I think I've pointed out that assimilation to a national identity is key.
I'm also pointing out that in the past we've had people of all creeds and color on board with American values.
So this idea that it's impossible is clearly false.

To reiterate that point, I invite anyone who feels to the contrary to express their views to minority veterans who spent their lives in service of America.
If someone really feels that America is doomed to fail because we don't look/pray similarly enough, they should be comfortable making that speech to the target audience, right?

Personally, I think if we went back to the melting pot concept we would be better off as a country, we need to get rid of the pre-identifying criteria. When people say they are 'X"-American they are already boxing themselves into a corner that has no place in American culture. If people want to be treated equally, they are all Americans. Those that think otherwise, I would give them a first class ticket to wherever they identify with, and say if you wish to identify yourself as an African-American, then please go back to Africa. If they say that they aren't from Africa, then ask why they identify themselves as such then...

For anyone born in America is an American first, their ancestor's heritage may be part of what they are, but they are Americans first with a mixed heritidge/race through ancestry.

I'm American, but I have Greek, Irish, Sicilian, and Chechsolvokian as the primaries and mixed with French and Native American Indian as secondaries. I don't call my self-hyphenated anything, I'm an American first and foremost.

Those that do had better be from another country and become US citizens, otherwise, they are failing civics 101, and destroying this country by forcing people to assimilate in such a way that it's ok to be an American as long as you fit into a niche first though.