Women make less because men work longer hours, duhhh...

[Fife]

I'll offer another proposition of fact that could be relevant to both sides of the current discussion, if anyone wants to support or deny it:

Third Wave Feminism, specifically, and Marxism, generally, are in opposition to objective human reality and lead to the classic symptoms of cognitive dissonance.

[DBTrek]

So what is your response to my above post.

Did I address the question adequately?

I'm curious about your response.

I am completely uninterested in engaging with you until you start being honest for a change.

+ No one can refute his arguments
+ You’re all liars which is why there is never new blood in the forum
+ Fuck you

¯\_(ツ)_/¯




... and I had the audacity to call this out as an unproductive endeavor pages ago.

[Speaker to Animals]

I noticed DB tried to bury the argument (again) without addressing it by insulting me and generally being nothing but a pest in the forum, so I will repost it.

Here are some simple facts.

(1) The wage gap is a myth.

Using the statistic that women make 78 cents on the dollar as evidence of rampant discrimination has been debunked over and over again. That statistic doesn’t take into account a lot of choices that women and men make—education, years of experience and hours worked—that influence earnings. If we want to have a fruitful discussion about a gender wage gap, we should have it after the comparison is adjusted for those factors. In a 2013 Slate article, Hanna Rosin, author of The End of Men, for example, wrote:

The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” The latter gives the impression that a man and a woman standing next to each other doing the same job for the same number of hours get paid different salaries. That’s not at all the case. “Full time” officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That’s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35.

Women’s groups and politicians, including Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, continue to tell women they are making almost a quarter less than men and use this statistic to call for legislation enacting further government intervention in employer and employee relationships, such as the Paycheck Fairness Act.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagnes ... 39cd512596

(2) Since the adoption of feminism as the ruling ideology of this country in the 1970s, women's happiness has been on a steady decline. Every year. Without pause.

In light of International Women’s Day, I wanted to re-visit these findings and check in with all of you about women, happiness, and all that has been achieved since 1972, the first year the United States General Social Survey (GSS) began asking men and women, “How happy are you?”

The study reported several findings:

1. Women in the United States have become less happy, both absolutely and relative to men;

2. The decline in women’s happiness is a trend seen across groups – both working and stay-at-home moms, for those married and divorced, the young and old, and across the education spectrum; and

3. These same trends appeared across industrialized countries for which there are sufficient happiness data.

What’s driving these results? The study poses several questions. Do women now feel more comfortable being honest about their real happiness levels? Has an increase in opportunity created a commensurate increase in what is required for women to declare, “I’m happy?” Have the changes created as a result of the women’s movement actually decreased women’s happiness?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -declining

She writes lots of questions there with obvious answers. A fundamental premise of feminism, I am told, is that women should be happier if we adopt these policies. Yet, regardless of causality for women's declining happiness (though we all know it is because of feminism, but whatever), feminism has at least not improved women's happiness one bit. In fact, women were much happier before feminism convinced them they needed to be just like men in order to be happy and women pursued those goals.



My question remains: what exactly are we supposed to do as a society if the goals of the ruling ideology we adopted result in women becoming increasingly miserable? If feminism is making women less happy, then should we not consider the possibility that the assumptions (at the very least) of this ideology are totally wrong??

[Speaker to Animals]

Also, the original form of the argument, with the original link that milspecs deleted so she could accuse me of "making opinions about women's happiness", as if it matters whether the person making the opinion is a man or woman (in this case, it was actually a woman, which is why she deleted the link).

On time for this thread:

https://thefederalist.com/2018/12/11/th ... ucker-you/

Worth reading the entire thing. She is on spot.


I think women like Milspecs really need to stop this bullshit gamesmanship, just stop in their tracks for once in their lives and seriously consider a simple question: regardless of what you think about the legitimacy of feminism, what exactly are we supposed to do as a society if the majority of women would not only be happier living traditional roles as mothers in the home, but are absolutely miserable with the lives feminism has foisted upon them?

Let's just assume somehow, intellectually, feminism is justifiable (laughable assertion, but just for the sake of argument..), but at the same time it is making women absolutely miserable and slowly destroying our civilization with non-replacement fertility rates and destroyed families (that part is factual). At what point does your ideology have to be held accountable to it's social and personal effects?

I really don't see how these people can maintain their cognitive dissonance much longer. Feminism is a disaster for western civilization. All the injustice inherent in it, the female chauvinism, the hatred, etc., does not even approach the damage done in terms of the human family and the perpetuity of our societies. We can argue nonstop about the fact that feminism is actually a hate movement, but you really cannot dispute basic facts like declining fertility rates and their effects on our society and economies, or the steady decline in female happiness. The more we adopt feminism as a social and legal policy, the more miserable women become, and the closer to demographic oblivion western civilization advances. At some point, women have to be honest about this.

[DrYouth]

My question remains: what exactly are we supposed to do as a society if the goals of the ruling ideology we adopted result in women becoming increasingly miserable? If feminism is making women less happy, then should we not consider the possibility that the assumptions (at the very least) of this ideology are totally wrong??

I accept your arguments about the wage gap and the reduction in happiness.

I put to you... What if the reduced happiness is the result of increased choices and increased autonomy of women?

What if increased autonomy results in less "protection" and greater stress, therefore decreased happiness.

Does that mean we should take choices and autonomy away from women.... for their own good?

[Speaker to Animals]

My question remains: what exactly are we supposed to do as a society if the goals of the ruling ideology we adopted result in women becoming increasingly miserable? If feminism is making women less happy, then should we not consider the possibility that the assumptions (at the very least) of this ideology are totally wrong??

I accept your arguments about the wage gap and the reduction in happiness.

I put to you... that what if the reduced happiness is the result of increased choices and increased autonomy of women.

What if increased autonomy results in less "protection" and greater stress, therefore decreased happiness.

Does that mean we should take choices and autonomy away from women.... for their own good?

I do not oppose increasing autonomy of women. I want for women to pursue their dreams and become whatever they want as long as they meet the qualifications to do so.

At the same time, I am realistic about the fact that women are not able to compete in many areas with men to the same degree. Some of them can, and they compete very well, but most cannot. Even at the level of the STEM field, you have generally twice as many males with requisite aptitude as females just based on the IQ distributions alone. Similarly, at the manual labor level, men obviously are better suited to do those jobs than women, and we don't even expect women to do those jobs.

I would suggest that you consider a simple possibility: the women who cannot compete with men and would otherwise be trapped in shitty labor jobs just end up becoming single-mothers and living on welfare because they'd have been happier had they married a man when they were very young and became house wives.

Yet God forbid you suggest that to feminist women. They perceive an obvious conclusion from well-researched data to be hate speech.

[DrYouth]

I would suggest that you consider a simple possibility: the women who cannot compete with men and would otherwise be trapped in shitty labor jobs just end up becoming single-mothers and living on welfare because they'd have been happier had they married a man when they were very young and became house wives.

That sentence is confusing.
They end up becoming single mothers because they would have been happier had they married a man when they were young and become housewives...

Not really following you there.

They can still marry young and become housewives.
It's not out of the question.

[Speaker to Animals]

I would suggest that you consider a simple possibility: the women who cannot compete with men and would otherwise be trapped in shitty labor jobs just end up becoming single-mothers and living on welfare because they'd have been happier had they married a man when they were very young and became house wives.

That sentence is confusing.
They end up becoming single mothers because they would have been happier had they married a man when they were young and become housewives...

Not really following you there.

They can still marry young and become housewives.
It's not out of the question.

I did not say it was.

Yet they are raised from birth by government schools controlled by feminists, the media pushing feminism, and most of the women in their lives telling them they need to pursue careers like men do, and they should be mercenary as fuck in their romantic lives. Most young women today just go between sex partners at least until their late-twenties.

I was just talking to a woman last night who is 27. We were talking about her babying instincts because of her dog and I pointed out that she really only has a good 8 years left to start a family. She asked me why and I had to tell her that, after 35, the risks for birth defects start rising and fertility drops as well. It's not that it's impossible to have children after 35, but it's not ideal and most women do not actually achieve the number of children they wanted.

In the article I posted that none of you read, the woman who wrote it pointed out that most women want at least 2 children. Yet many have forgone marriage for so long, that they will never achieve their dream of having even replacement fertility, which arguably would have made them happiest. Instead they pursued empty and (for them) unfulfilling careers, traveled from place-to-place without establish roots and longterm relationships with other people, and are generally very unhappy.

And that's the ones that could pursue careers. The ones who just don't cut it in the professional workplace are actually better off as single mothers than working at Burger King. I do not think any of you could seriously doubt that.

Going back to the wage gap, why do you suppose it is that women choose to work less hours, spend more time away from work to raise children than men do? Men can do those things too. I can tell you that I'd personally much prefer less time working and more time with my children. I think most men feel the same way. But we all know our wives wouldn't want that. They want that time. Perhaps they want that time because they are significantly happier doing that than their jobs.

It is my contention that most of these feminist victim myths actually belie truths they don't want to discuss. The wage gap is a kind of tactic to keep us from discussing the reasons why women are trying like fuck to get out of work.

[Ph64]

I would suggest that you consider a simple possibility: the women who cannot compete with men and would otherwise be trapped in shitty labor jobs just end up becoming single-mothers and living on welfare because they'd have been happier had they married a man when they were very young and became house wives.

That sentence is confusing.
They end up becoming single mothers because they would have been happier had they married a man when they were young and become housewives...

Not really following you there.

They can still marry young and become housewives.
It's not out of the question.

The problem is the feminist narrative... "You (women) can do anything, be anything, and 'do it all'"...

No you cant. Life is about choices - putting children/family off until she's 35+ comes with risks, it's not "men's fault", it just basic biology. Sure, she can become an astronaut, or a CEO, or who know what "dream career" she has in mind... But it might mean sacrificing having a family, working 80 hours a week, high stress, etc.

That's just the way it is. Life is a competition, it always has been. Feminism opened up the opportunity for women to compete for jobs against men - I'm all for it - but it shouldn't come with the expectation that men should just roll over, lower the standards for women, and not compete as hard as they do against each other for those same jobs. Equality means equal treatment, no advantages. We shouldn't lie about that.

[DrYouth]

So basically the problem you are addressing is the "false promise" aspect.

The promise of feminism was freedom and happiness.

The truth of feminism is more responsibility and less time to participate in the nurturing activities of womanhood.

I don't really disagree with any of this.

I mean despite this women are still more "empowered"... although for many this may be worth all of it... for some it may be cold comfort.

And yet you can't really put the genie back in the bottle.