Maybe it's not Capitalism or Liberalism

[Speaker to Animals]

And with respect to commitment.. Marxists are willing to burn down their own universities to prevent people on the right even speaking openly there. You simply will not diffuse them with soft-spoken, paternalistic liberalism. It's quite beyond that. Liberals don't possess that level of commitment at all. Liberals will write letters to editors of local newspapers, write their opinions on the Internet, etc., but they simply do not possess the commitment or temperament to do much more, which is good because that's what liberalism was all about. The problem is that it's utterly ineffective against radicals of any stripe.

A political system has to at least convince adherents that it can solve their problems in a freely democratic system. When that freedom is taken away, sure, you can start lining up dissenters and shooting them in their faces to solve that problem. But right here and now, you have to convince all these people on the left, especially the millennials, that you can solve their problems. But can you? What has liberalism offered them but crushing debt, no hope, offshored jobs, and nothing but blame on them for their lot in life? Marxists are eating this shit up.

Remember when Marx said that if you give capitalists enough rope they'd hang themselves? They're all standing on the chair now with a rope around their necks.

[SuburbanFarmer]

And with respect to commitment.. Marxists are willing to burn down their own universities to prevent people on the right even speaking openly there. You simply will not diffuse them with soft-spoken, paternalistic liberalism. It's quite beyond that. Liberals don't possess that level of commitment at all. Liberals will write letters to editors of local newspapers, write their opinions on the Internet, etc., but they simply do not possess the commitment or temperament to do much more, which is good because that's what liberalism was all about. The problem is that it's utterly ineffective against radicals of any stripe.

A political system has to at least convince adherents that it can solve their problems in a freely democratic system. When that freedom is taken away, sure, you can start lining up dissenters and shooting them in their faces to solve that problem. But right here and now, you have to convince all these people on the left, especially the millennials, that you can solve their problems. But can you? What has liberalism offered them but crushing debt, no hope, offshored jobs, and nothing but blame on them for their lot in life? Marxists are eating this shit up.

Remember when Marx said that if you give capitalists enough rope they'd hang themselves? They're all standing on the chair now with a rope around their necks.

Parents learn to ignore tantrums from children. Direct opposition only breeds violence.

Observe the mass panic set off by a small group of wannabe-Nazis marching to oppose Antifa clowns. If you want it to go away, ignore the hyperbole and speak calmly.

[DrYouth]

And with respect to commitment.. Marxists are willing to burn down their own universities to prevent people on the right even speaking openly there. You simply will not diffuse them with soft-spoken, paternalistic liberalism. It's quite beyond that. Liberals don't possess that level of commitment at all. Liberals will write letters to editors of local newspapers, write their opinions on the Internet, etc., but they simply do not possess the commitment or temperament to do much more, which is good because that's what liberalism was all about. The problem is that it's utterly ineffective against radicals of any stripe.

A political system has to at least convince adherents that it can solve their problems in a freely democratic system. When that freedom is taken away, sure, you can start lining up dissenters and shooting them in their faces to solve that problem. But right here and now, you have to convince all these people on the left, especially the millennials, that you can solve their problems. But can you? What has liberalism offered them but crushing debt, no hope, offshored jobs, and nothing but blame on them for their lot in life? Marxists are eating this shit up.

Remember when Marx said that if you give capitalists enough rope they'd hang themselves? They're all standing on the chair now with a rope around their necks.

Two problems.

#1. Hyperbolic Cultural Marxists.... these are shrill zealots out to try and dominate certain areas within the intellectual and burocratic landscape.
They are best responded to with evenhanded arguments such as those made by Jordan Peterson. I believe legal challenges are then best avenue when these zealots attempt to curtail the rights of others.

#2. The actual problems with our disintegrating social fabric. These problems were not created by the Marxists, just as the problems of industrialization that Marx was responding to was not created by Marx. The working class was being exploited in the early industrial age. We solved that to some degree with regulating working hours and increasing workers rights... far short of the working class utopia envisioned by Marx... However the conditions for our working poor are sliding again... the "middle class" is an endangered species... although everyone wants to believe they belong to it. This applies to white and "privileged", as much as non-white and "unprivileged"... making those categories essentially without value.

Addressing these two problems are separate issues. The second is the actual problem, the first is a harmful distraction from that problem...

[Speaker to Animals]

I agree with #2, but #1 is misguided. You drastically underestimate their numbers and especially their support from a much broader base on the left. Peterson is not trying to convince them of anything. I believe he well understands you cannot reason with an emotive ideology like cultural Marxism. He is trying to awaken fellow liberals like you to the very real danger.

I doubt liberals have the numbers to turn this around, and I damned well can see that neither form of neo-liberalism (liberals and conservatives) offer any meaningful solutions to the problems faced by this generation. Not only can liberals not reason with them, liberalism itself cannot solve the actual problems these people face, much less all the manufactured fake problems they obsess over.

Really, the serious economic and social problems that plague the millinneals were created by liberals and conservatives in the first place.

Marx was correct about handing people enough rope to hang themselves. That's exactly what happened.

[DrYouth]

I agree with #2, but #1 is misguided. You drastically underestimate their numbers and especially their support from a much broader base on the left. Peterson is not trying to convince them of anything. I believe he well understands you cannot reason with an emotive ideology like cultural Marxism. He is trying to awaken fellow liberals like you to the very real danger.

I doubt liberals have the numbers to turn this around, and I damned well can see that neither form of neo-liberalism (liberals and conservatives) offer any meaningful solutions to the problems faced by this generation. Not only can liberals not reason with them, liberalism itself cannot solve the actual problems these people face, much less all the manufactured fake problems they obsess over.

Really, the serious economic and social problems that plague the millinneals were created by liberals and conservatives in the first place.

Marx was correct about handing people enough rope to hang themselves. That's exactly what happened.

So what do you see ahead STA?

[Speaker to Animals]

I agree with #2, but #1 is misguided. You drastically underestimate their numbers and especially their support from a much broader base on the left. Peterson is not trying to convince them of anything. I believe he well understands you cannot reason with an emotive ideology like cultural Marxism. He is trying to awaken fellow liberals like you to the very real danger.

I doubt liberals have the numbers to turn this around, and I damned well can see that neither form of neo-liberalism (liberals and conservatives) offer any meaningful solutions to the problems faced by this generation. Not only can liberals not reason with them, liberalism itself cannot solve the actual problems these people face, much less all the manufactured fake problems they obsess over.

Really, the serious economic and social problems that plague the millinneals were created by liberals and conservatives in the first place.

Marx was correct about handing people enough rope to hang themselves. That's exactly what happened.

So what do you see ahead STA?

Not sure. Demographically, America is looking at dissolution since two different peoples cannot occupy the same territory without conflict. Because of this, future politics are going to be ethnic and sectarian rather than the higher-level political differences we had before. It's basically a division between Hispanic America and Anglo America. I think it a mistake to try to think about how to reframe the political divide as a different, but equally high-level, political spectrum. It's much more primal and barbaric now. That kind of high-level politics depends upon a solid majority population retaining control.

In this example we are discussing (millennials), the problem really is immigration and offshoring of jobs. It's inherently an Anglo versus Hispanic problem even if many don't want to accept that fact. Each generation that goes out to look for jobs is swamped by immigrants (many illegal) who are totally motivated by a goal of conquering the United States for their own. It's pretty bad.

In a lot of ways, we are far better off than Europe, since Hispanics are still decent people for the most part, whereas Europe is going to be overrun with jihadis if they don't stop the madness. But still.. politics necessarily has to be a consensus between two competing peoples now. That doesn't leave room for more sophisticated political discourse.

[StCapps]

That doesn't leave room for more sophisticated political discourse.

Cold War 2.0 will bring back the Eurasian boogeymen in due time, once it really gets ramped up, that will give Anglos and Hispanics something to unite against, and then there will be more room for sophisticated political discourse. It's a cycle, America is just on the hyperpartisan portion of it at the moment, but it will swing back eventually, y'all just need a common enemy to distract you from the petty bickering, you'll see.

[Speaker to Animals]

That doesn't leave room for more sophisticated political discourse.

Cold War 2.0 will bring back the Eurasian boogeymen in due time, once it really gets ramped up, that will give Anglos and Hispanics something to unite against, and then there will be more room for sophisticated political discourse. It's a cycle, America is just on the hyperpartisan portion of it at the moment, but it will swing back eventually, you'll see.

It would have to threaten Hispanics and Anglos alike, when more accurately, such an entity would take a side and divide us against each other.

[StCapps]

It would have to threaten Hispanics and Anglos alike, when more accurately, such an entity would take a side and divide us against each other.

They'll try but that doesn't mean they'll succeed. America is just as likely to succeed at dividing the Eurasian boogeyman, probably more so than vice versa. Eventually some politicians will try unite Anglos and Hispanics against that boogeyman, if just for the votes, and they'll win doing so.
/shrugs

[Speaker to Animals]

It would have to threaten Hispanics and Anglos alike, when more accurately, such an entity would take a side and divide us against each other.

They'll try but that doesn't mean they'll succeed. America is just as likely to succeed at dividing the Eurasian boogeyman, probably more so than vice versa. Eventually some politicians will try unite Anglos and Hispanics against that boogeyman, if just for the votes, and they'll win doing so.
/shrugs

Anglos and Hispanics could work together against a common foe, no doubt. But Eurasia would be fools to not exploit this sectarian conflict in America. It's hardly difficult either. Look at what Soros alone has managed to do.