What is the Chance of an Electoral College Revolt?

[clubgop]

Whatsmore, the EC is really the only reason illegals can affect the election.

What? That makes little sense. EC isolates fraud and any other shenanigans. As for the Census, states use differing data sets for apportionment. Some use all people, others only citizens, other citizens of voting age, and some other delineations. They just have to use the same data set throughout.

[SuburbanFarmer]

How about:

Most of the grocery store goes away, and you are eating some very expensive bread, or meat.

The production of bread and meat do not involve climbing ladders or backbreaking labor in the sun. Well, not at the industrial level that most of our food is produced at. The farming of wheat, corn, and other grains has been all but completely mechanized for about a 100 years. Raising, slaughtering, and processing cattle, chickens, pigs, etc. is not "hard work", either. Similarly, most citrus and apple harvesting is mechanized.

There are some agricultural products that are still most-economically harvested by hand, but they don't make up the bulk of our diet, and a shortage of those products would not result in a Mad Max scenario.

Right, and that's exactly why I left the bread and meat on the shelves - at least for a while.

There is mechanization in the fruits and veg industry, but that's where a very big chunk of the 11 million are working. We could do it without them, but not in a sudden burst. The costs of mechanizing those farms completely, and paying a big wage to the rest would be astronomical. Also, it's not simply pulling things out of the plant and putting them in a box. There's a LOT of labor in sorting, packing, processing, preparing, etc, etc... Apples are a good example of this. The number of steps involved are incredible.

I'm not saying that Americans would starve to death. I'm saying that if our massive surplus of food were disrupted, then we would be watching food riots spread across the third-world within months. Once those economies start to collapse, our manufacturing is disrupted, trade collapses, financial markets crash, and the economy is destroyed. It's. All. Connected.

I didn't even mention the sudden shock to the restaurant and janitorial industries. Those would be substantial, to say the least.

GCF, you don't know anything about what you are talking about. You don't. Clearly. If you did, you wouldn't be trotting out this bullshit myth that no one wants those jobs. Americans have been doing those jobs for centuries. It's an absolutely asinine assertion.

How you elitist hating lefties can't see through this smoke screen is beyond me. Why do think all the factories are in China? Is that because no one wanted to do those jobs either? Wake up.

I didn't just spit this out of nowhere. I have no doubt that some of the farmer's kids will work the fields for a summer or something, but you simply will not find 11 million people to do this work.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/us/fa ... labor.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... a70cc47735

http://www.economist.com/node/17722932

You need me to explain supply and demand for you?

No, but you need to explain hunching over to pick something that grows in a tree.

There are more than one or two types of harvesting.

[Atherzon]

We don't feed the third world with food produced predominantly by manual labor. We feed it with food produced almost solely by mechanized labor.

[Okeefenokee]

I didn't just spit this out of nowhere. I have no doubt that some of the farmer's kids will work the fields for a summer or something, but you simply will not find 11 million people to do this work.

First of all, you numbers are way off. Second of all, you keep focusing on agriculture, while ignoring a much larger sector, construction.

Agriculture employment is around seven hundred thousand. Construction is nearly seven million.

http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iag23.htm#about

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/farming-fishing- ... orkers.htm

Construction jobs are not jobs that no American wants to do. They are jobs that employers would rather hire illegals to do, largely because they can avoid worker's comp insurance.

Framers,

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and ... enters.htm

Painters,

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and ... enance.htm

Pipelayers,

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472151.htm

Cement masons,

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472051.htm

Millions of jobs Americans have held for generations. It's time you realize you've been fed a line of bullshit on this, Americans don't want these jobs, garbage.

[TheReal_ND]

It's true. I've hustled many many jobs but never once figured out how to hustle a residential construction job. Everytime I look at the crews I get a sense why. Closest I came was a little roofing but I wasn't making any money doing that anyway. Nine dollars and hour he would pay gutter punks he picked up at Jackson Square

Eh no, I take that back. I guess the "pipe fitting" job I had installing lubri-mist systems in refineries was construction. All screw pipe though. The pipe fitters would laugh at us if we claimed we were and called us plumbers.... fuck that bitch.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I didn't just spit this out of nowhere. I have no doubt that some of the farmer's kids will work the fields for a summer or something, but you simply will not find 11 million people to do this work.

First of all, you numbers are way off. Second of all, you keep focusing on agriculture, while ignoring a much larger sector, construction.

Agriculture employment is around seven hundred thousand. Construction is nearly seven million.

http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iag23.htm#about

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/farming-fishing- ... orkers.htm

Construction jobs are not jobs that no American wants to do. They are jobs that employers would rather hire illegals to do, largely because they can avoid worker's comp insurance.

Framers,

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and ... enters.htm

Painters,

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and ... enance.htm

Pipelayers,

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472151.htm

Cement masons,

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472051.htm

Millions of jobs Americans have held for generations. It's time you realize you've been fed a line of bullshit on this, Americans don't want these jobs, garbage.

The agricultural jobs that the BLS is describing are non-seasonal. Those are the entire workforce of actual farm owners and operators - not the seasonal (illegal) labor. Those numbers are many times larger.

Absolutely, I agree that many, many Americans would love a job in a trade - myself included. They are tough to get into, and pay well once established. But for every one of those sweet union pipe-fitting jobs, there are 3 undocumented 'laborers' shoveling shit for pesos. We are not talking about the same thing. A licensed contractor, by definition, cannot be an illegal immigrant. Those are not jobs being taken from Americans, they are specially reserved for them.

[TheReal_ND]

Funny that. I worked in one refinery in Houston during a shut down turn around after getting back from Ohio and became acutely aware that I was the only white person there out of the hundreds of pipe fitting/scaffolding/masons/welders/electricians etc etc. I think that was the first time I started to ask myself what the fuck was going on. Then I would hear stories of the refinery gate guards busting or turning a blind eye to entire crews that for some reason had the same social security number. Meh... probably all on the up and up what with them licensed contractors hiring up hands at deep discount rates eh? Lots of money to be made at a refinery.

[Okeefenokee]

Absolutely, I agree that many, many Americans would love a job in a trade - myself included. They are tough to get into, and pay well once established. But for every one of those sweet union pipe-fitting jobs, there are 3 undocumented 'laborers' shoveling shit for pesos. We are not talking about the same thing. A licensed contractor, by definition, cannot be an illegal immigrant. Those are not jobs being taken from Americans, they are specially reserved for them.

Again, you're showing your lack of experience. That's like saying a licensed builder can't be an illegal. It's without meaning. The guy being hired to do the work is not the one actually doing the work. He has his papers in order, sure, but his workers don't.

Framers, roofers, painters, brick layers. All are fields filled with illegals and are all fields which citizens filled not long ago. I spent half my life in construction. These aren't jobs that most Americans don't want to do, and they aren't jobs that are reserved only for Americans. Worker's compensation is a large part of the employment cost in construction. The rates are a lot higher than they are in office jobs. Employers can pay illegals the same wages they pay Americans, and even more, because of the savings reaped by not having to insure their workers. A guy my dad worked for for years went to prison a couple years ago. Why? Millions in unpaid worker's compensation because he'd been hiring Guatemalan's for decades.

Again, just another area where you'll defend the means to achieve cheap labor. What's a little worker exploitation on the side if it means you get your house painted on the cheap? You've been told that Americans won't paint houses, after all. If the employer decides to hire illegals and not insure them against workplace injury, all the better, right? That's a few more bucks off your expenses. If he gets hurt on the job, fuck him. When we reformed workplace standards, we only meant for those benefits to go to white people. Mexicans can get bent. Amiright?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Dude, again. I am all for ending this. Just absolutely not at a fast pace. The consequences are huge, if we do some kind of sweeping decree and end it all at once. That's my entire argument.

I do not employ illegals, I don't like exploitation, I'm not heartless. Just don't burn the house down to kill a few rats.

[clubgop]

No, but you need to explain hunching over to pick something that grows in a tree.

There are more than one or two types of harvesting.

Not for oranges, you said oranges.