heydaralon wrote:Someone on here pointed out earlier that Christianity had a violent past. Before World War 1, the Thirty Years war was the most violent conflict in European History. However I think it is incredibly disingenuous to compare 17th century Christian violence, with present day Islamic violence. That would be like comparing present day Mongolia with Genghis Khan Mongolia. While protestants and Catholics did attack and kill each other in the past, they are largely peaceful today. The Northern Ireland Troubles is an exception, but Muslims killed almost as many people on September 11, as the amount killed during that 30 year period. .....*snip* It is not just in the Middle East and Europe. Muslims everywhere have had difficulty assimilating and remaining peaceful, whether its Chechens or Uighurs in China. Much of this violence is unreported by the way. There were over 400 acid attacks in London last year, and many gang rapes on which the authorities buried the lead (hint: its not Taoists doing it). In the future, its possible that this violence will subside, and Islam may be able to distance itself from this unfortunate legacy. At the present though, it is incredibly naive to act like Muslims pose no serious threat to safety and order because of Christian religious wars 400 years ago. Huguenots and Anabaptists haven't been holding the bloody dagger for a long time.
I'll get to the part I highlighted in bold later...
I agree that there are people trying to turn the issue of integration of immigrants into a moral relativistic game of everything being equal, everything being the same. Over more inane, that we're "just as bad". Western Civilization equals democracy, liberty, civil rights, essentially the values founded or first expressed by French and British philosophers and eventually realized as something more than theory with the creation of the United States. Claiming that we still carry out public executions of heretics and people accused of witchcraft in the Western world is..... extremely ignorant.
The constant comparisons between Islam and Christianity are meaningless. So is the expectation of an Islamic Reformation. Not because they're not reform-friendly, but because it's not some sort of historical "law" that Reformation and splitting off from an earlier religion is the only way to progress. Judaism is a fine example of that. While the fact that they were minority obviously plays a part, in the centuries after losing the last temple, they eventually did away the death penalty for blasphemy and apostasy. Helps they didn't have a state and that those who left their faith would generally accept the faith of the Christian or Muslim ruler. Can't very well execute a Christian for abandoning the Jewish faith if your liege is Christian and you're Jewish.
Now, as for the bolded part: Chechens in Russia and Uyghurs in China are not
immigrant Muslims. They're natives, their land conquered in the past by Russia and China. There are two sorts of multi-ethnicity. Native ethnic groups, and immigrant ethnic groups. Chechens are native ethnic groups to Russia, Chechnya is as integrated into the Russian Federation as the Kremlin wants it to be.
Expecting that the 6 or so % that make up Europe's Muslim population poses a "serious" threat to safety and order is mostly.... pathetic. Weak. Hysterical. Unmanly. Undignified. And quite simply stupid. Muslim immigrants and descendents pose a greater pr. capita
CRIME problem than natives, sure. But not the extent that the national
order is threatened. I realize that lots of you get your news about this mythological fall of Europe to Islam from "sources" like Breitbart, Daily Mail, and various other fake news nutter sites. Problem with that isn't that you get your news from there....but that you get your information about the state of Europe
exclusively from those hysteria-promoting clickbait sites.
Fame is not flattery. Respect is not agreement.
