Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Okeefenokee
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by Okeefenokee » Wed May 10, 2017 11:30 pm

heydaralon wrote:
jbird4049 wrote:
heydaralon wrote:
I think he's talking about the T-4 program.
That was only a stop from Victorian England to post WW1 America to Weimar Germany to the 1970s. The Germans got the idea from us, and we only finally stopped in the 70s. Although there were some news stories about a decade ago of a California women's prison doing so on its own.

And for a while it both support, and opposition, from across the political spectrum.
Yep. Many intellectuals in Britain and the US were all about eugenics. HG Wells, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Hellen Keller, and George Bernard Shaw all defended the practice to some extent. There were also those like Ernst Haeckel in Germany who were actually pacifists because they believed that war would cause the bravest, strongest, and most altruistic to die, leaving behind the genetic undesirables. Many scientists in Wiemar Germany also supported the practice, and found it extremely easy to align their beliefs with the new regime after 1933.
You forgot one,
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, if so urged by hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with a certain and great present evil. Hence we must bear without complaining the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely the weaker and inferior members of society not marrying so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased, though this is more to be hoped for than expected, by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage.
― Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man
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jbird4049
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by jbird4049 » Wed May 10, 2017 11:46 pm

Okeefenokee wrote:
heydaralon wrote:
jbird4049 wrote:
That was only a stop from Victorian England to post WW1 America to Weimar Germany to the 1970s. The Germans got the idea from us, and we only finally stopped in the 70s. Although there were some news stories about a decade ago of a California women's prison doing so on its own.

And for a while it both support, and opposition, from across the political spectrum.
Yep. Many intellectuals in Britain and the US were all about eugenics. HG Wells, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Hellen Keller, and George Bernard Shaw all defended the practice to some extent. There were also those like Ernst Haeckel in Germany who were actually pacifists because they believed that war would cause the bravest, strongest, and most altruistic to die, leaving behind the genetic undesirables. Many scientists in Wiemar Germany also supported the practice, and found it extremely easy to align their beliefs with the new regime after 1933.
You forgot one,
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, if so urged by hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with a certain and great present evil. Hence we must bear without complaining the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely the weaker and inferior members of society not marrying so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased, though this is more to be hoped for than expected, by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage.
― Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man
Francis Galton, the man who started, and coined the word for, eugenics was his cousin.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

heydaralon
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by heydaralon » Thu May 11, 2017 5:44 am

Okeefenokee wrote:
heydaralon wrote:
jbird4049 wrote:
That was only a stop from Victorian England to post WW1 America to Weimar Germany to the 1970s. The Germans got the idea from us, and we only finally stopped in the 70s. Although there were some news stories about a decade ago of a California women's prison doing so on its own.

And for a while it both support, and opposition, from across the political spectrum.
Yep. Many intellectuals in Britain and the US were all about eugenics. HG Wells, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Hellen Keller, and George Bernard Shaw all defended the practice to some extent. There were also those like Ernst Haeckel in Germany who were actually pacifists because they believed that war would cause the bravest, strongest, and most altruistic to die, leaving behind the genetic undesirables. Many scientists in Wiemar Germany also supported the practice, and found it extremely easy to align their beliefs with the new regime after 1933.
You forgot one,
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, if so urged by hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with a certain and great present evil. Hence we must bear without complaining the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely the weaker and inferior members of society not marrying so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased, though this is more to be hoped for than expected, by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage.
― Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man
There's a book I have called from Darwin to Hitler that talks about Eugenics and how it took off after the origin of species and reached its pinnacle during the Third Reich. Different times I guess.
Shikata ga nai

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu May 11, 2017 6:22 am

We are not very far off from seeing the far left picking up on eugenics again. I mean.. they already advocate for white genocide, among other horrors.

This is where that social justice garbage leads.

Hwen Hoshino
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by Hwen Hoshino » Thu May 11, 2017 7:32 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:We are not very far off from seeing the far left picking up on eugenics again. I mean.. they already advocate for white genocide, among other horrors.

This is where that social justice garbage leads.
They ain't got the guts to call for genocide yet.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu May 11, 2017 7:56 am

Hwen Hoshino wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:We are not very far off from seeing the far left picking up on eugenics again. I mean.. they already advocate for white genocide, among other horrors.

This is where that social justice garbage leads.
They ain't got the guts to call for genocide yet.

LOL

You haven't taken to dumpster diving through the left's social media and blogs yet, then.

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jbird4049
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by jbird4049 » Thu May 11, 2017 9:51 am

I need more coffee, and I might not make much sense. Here it goes, however.


Eugenical ideas are seductive to many across the political spectrum. Social Darwinism, sterilization, genocide.

I worry that genetic modification might be sucked into it.

It's a doctrine that just wont fricking die.

I think that it is supposed to be an answer to many problems. Just remove the diseased element from humanity, and all will be better.

It is an engineer's approach to solving our ills, but it reduces the complexities, the messiness, the humanity that is us to a simple easy chart.

Life is not like that of course, and it reduces people to game pieces, which makes them easy to change, or remove from the board.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu May 11, 2017 10:42 am

jbird4049 wrote:I need more coffee, and I might not make much sense. Here it goes, however.


Eugenical ideas are seductive to many across the political spectrum. Social Darwinism, sterilization, genocide.

I worry that genetic modification might be sucked into it.

It's a doctrine that just wont fricking die.

I think that it is supposed to be an answer to many problems. Just remove the diseased element from humanity, and all will be better.

It is an engineer's approach to solving our ills, but it reduces the complexities, the messiness, the humanity that is us to a simple easy chart.

Life is not like that of course, and it reduces people to game pieces, which makes them easy to change, or remove from the board.

Mainly the left, dude. Even today, I don't see the right supporting eugenics programs like PP. Eugenics used to be a "progressive" plank. It is still, only they don't admit it.

Hwen Hoshino
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by Hwen Hoshino » Thu May 11, 2017 10:45 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Hwen Hoshino wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:We are not very far off from seeing the far left picking up on eugenics again. I mean.. they already advocate for white genocide, among other horrors.

This is where that social justice garbage leads.
They ain't got the guts to call for genocide yet.

LOL

You haven't taken to dumpster diving through the left's social media and blogs yet, then.
I care about publications. Blogs and social media are fairly obscure.

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jbird4049
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Re: Colbert takes the gloves off on Trump

Post by jbird4049 » Thu May 11, 2017 2:57 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
jbird4049 wrote:I need more coffee, and I might not make much sense. Here it goes, however.


Eugenical ideas are seductive to many across the political spectrum. Social Darwinism, sterilization, genocide.

I worry that genetic modification might be sucked into it.

It's a doctrine that just wont fricking die.

I think that it is supposed to be an answer to many problems. Just remove the diseased element from humanity, and all will be better.

It is an engineer's approach to solving our ills, but it reduces the complexities, the messiness, the humanity that is us to a simple easy chart.

Life is not like that of course, and it reduces people to game pieces, which makes them easy to change, or remove from the board.

Mainly the left, dude. Even today, I don't see the right supporting eugenics programs like PP. Eugenics used to be a "progressive" plank. It is still, only they don't admit it.
It's political spores are everywhere and under different names. Social Darwinism could be a kind of eugenics and it was advocated by the day's elites. Racists used their bigotry to justify sterilizing blacks. The upper classes justified sterilization of the poor because they were waste people. Hell, some American States sterilized imprisoned felons.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.