Haven't been around for a while...

[SuburbanFarmer]

We will have better presidents when we have an election process that stops filtering out better people. For this stumbling block the blame can be laid directly of the feet of the two-party system and the Congress they control.

Agree completely. I just don't think that this is going to change it in the right direction.

[Speaker to Animals]

I think having more than two parties is a fucking disaster for most European nations. I don't want that. We build coalitions at the electorate level. It works much better that way. The coalition comes a mandate for elected leaders. GOP at least realized right quick they had a mandate to walk back the libertarian "free trade" garbage, for example. Our system makes it easier to put install a coalition but more difficult to change it quickly and rashly, which is why the left has resorted to tyrannical activists judges to jam their bullshit through.

[clubgop]

We will have better presidents when we have an election process that stops filtering out better people. For this stumbling block the blame can be laid directly of the feet of the two-party system and the Congress they control.

Politics itself filters out "better" people. Look around and see what people say about their politicians in other western democracies. Some of them have more parties than people doesn't make a difference.

[Martin Hash]

We will have better presidents when we have an election process that stops filtering out better people. For this stumbling block the blame can be laid directly of the feet of the two-party system and the Congress they control.

Politics itself filters out "better" people. Look around and see what people say about their politicians in other western democracies. Some of them have more parties than people doesn't make a difference.

I agree with this.

p.s. I keep running out of spite. They want to select an inexperienced, Hispanic, female, unemployed Middle School teacher over me, that's on them.

[Speaker to Animals]

We will have better presidents when we have an election process that stops filtering out better people. For this stumbling block the blame can be laid directly of the feet of the two-party system and the Congress they control.

Politics itself filters out "better" people. Look around and see what people say about their politicians in other western democracies. Some of them have more parties than people doesn't make a difference.

I agree with this.

p.s. I keep running out of spite. They want to select an inexperienced, Hispanic, female, unemployed Middle School teacher over me, that's on them.

But is she hot?

[C-Mag]

My Responses in Blue

It is definitely looking that way. I have challenged them to the type of discussion they say they want. I have laid our my pro's and con's on Trump. I have laid out his promises and how Trump is doing on them. And further, this board has been trashing Establishment Republicans, and Democrats as they deserve. Yet they ignore that and call us out for being single minded.

First, excuse me for not being available to the board 24/7.
Second, I never called you out, Carlus. You are a reasonable person who doesn't have Trump colored glasses on.
There are SOME of you who don't even care that Trump lies about very big stuff. He's pissing off and offending our friends and having snuggle fests with states we should be cautious about.
I was poking you a little Kath, and no, I wasn't worried about if I was included or not.



When world leaders have to constantly call Trump out for the liar he is, that's a problem. Perhaps he just doesn't know, and isn't intentionally lying, but it's very dangerous for a man in his position to not appear trustworthy. It makes him look stupid and makes us look stupid for electing someone who literally has no idea how this country is run or why departments exist or why protocols are in place. He also isn't a man who likes to be told/informed about things. (Unless you are named Bannon, who is our true leader right now.)
I think this is the crux of the divide on Trump. He talks like a construction worker. Half of America feels we must be above that, the other half likes the change from Obama, who was well spoken while he was boning you. A reporter put it best
Anti Trumper Take him literally, but not seriously
Trump supporters Take him seriously, but not Literally

The Left's biggest mistake is not taking him seriously and believing he is stupid, cause he's making his opponents look like fools. Just this week, Maddow on Taxes, No evidence Russia tampered with the election, and now the Obama Admin was spying on him.


What if something (when) devastating happens. He has no trust. He could totally be telling the truth about some poisoned gas or whatever coming to harm us. I, personally, will not believe him. Every time he opens his mouth I have to go fact check him.
This is one of your best points IMO. Don't know if you watched his address to Congress, but we want that guy. Not 6 AM tweet guy. We will have crisis during his presidency and he is going to need to be able to rally people.

I will say, this though. Ever notice when he has a private meeting with people, even opponents they come out of the meeting impressed?


He may (will likely,) do things I agree with. All presidents do shit I like and don't like. No president gets 100% support or disdain. But this man is incredibly dangerous to our country.
This is one that I struggle with a lot, every time I hear it. I base my assessment of how dangerous Trump is to what I've seen for leadership during my life. Hillary was scary Dangerous, SCARY. She was ramping up the McCarthyism, her track record sucked, she wanted Assad gone, already destroyed Libya. But with Trump, it's a blank slate. Now he says provocative things, all the time. But he has not track record for destroying shit..................... unless you are the USFL

I want reform, I want budgets cut, I want corruption gone. This should be done with thoughtfulness and planning. He's not doing any of that.
Kath, you don't want to hear this. But Trump is our best chance to make progress on this. He has been attacked by the Establishment- the media, intelligence community, Dems and GOP, and he's in a political war with them. The establishment keeps us from making progress against corruption, they need to be expunged. I have no doubt, Trump has his own corruption angles, heck he admitted to paying off politicians to get what he needed done. I'll a few corrupt folks vs and entire established corrupt network.

Here's a short list of the many, many lies he's told. You literally cannot believe a word he says.

Most electoral votes ever. Good One, check
Largest inauguration crowd size ever.check
Millions of illegal immigrants voted in the election.we don't know, you won't let me ask for IDs and smart check them
Facing historic delay in getting nominees approved.Don't know yet, still waiting on confirmations, could be
Murder rate is highest in 45 years.I have no idea, but probably true in Chicago
Terrorist attacks are not being reported.Check
Mexico will pay for the wall.You should love this one, it's semantics, like getting something for free
Saved millions on the F-35, all by himself, in a matter of minutes.He did reduce the costs, don't know how long it took
Obama had him wire tapped.BUZZZZZZZZZZZZ................ Obama Admin did spy on him, you're parsing semantics and avoiding the intent
Budget has biggest ever defense spending increase.Check, Trump didn't take in to account little things like WWII
Obamacare covers very few people.It's relative, I have a friend who got enrolled 14 months ago, still doesn't have coverage
Obama released hundreds of vicious prisoners from Gitmo.Check
Our borders are wide open.
Claims clean water rule applies to puddles.
EPA put hundreds of thousands of people out of work.
NOBODY knew healthcare was complicated.

[jbird4049]

I say no thread should be locked. Let them speak, and if you don't like it, don't respond.

We need counter-balance around here, imo.

We have let them speak. I didn't want it locked to silence anyone. I wanted it locked because Ooky started a dumpster fire and then vanished, leaving the thread to wander into other topics. I want different opinions here, but what's purpose of this thread at this point? The discussions being had now can be in appropriately labeled threads.

Looks like KY ans skank also missed the point of my request.

What?? Threadjacking is par for the course.

Having followed many a thread at the DCF and now at the MHF, they seem to wander all over the place. It often goes like Someone puts up an op on politics, which winds up into an earnest discussion on the different flavors of cheese wiz, goes into the merits of Red Dwarf against Dr Who, then back onto the original point.

[skankhunt42]

We will have better presidents when we have an election process that stops filtering out better people. For this stumbling block the blame can be laid directly of the feet of the two-party system and the Congress they control.

Politics itself filters out "better" people. Look around and see what people say about their politicians in other western democracies. Some of them have more parties than people doesn't make a difference.

I agree with this.

p.s. I keep running out of spite. They want to select an inexperienced, Hispanic, female, unemployed Middle School teacher over me, that's on them.

That made my day! I love that mentality and support it!

[PartyOf5]

Here's a short list of the many, many lies he's told. You literally cannot believe a word he says.

Magnus already responded to list, so I won't revisit that. As far as the above statement, that itself is a lie.

I think it was Magnus that listed out his promises. A number of them have already been fulfilled, so yes you can literally believe things he says.

Politicians have lied to the people since the beginning of time. Is Trump claiming credit for saving money on the F-35 or saying his inauguration crowd was the largest ever as bad as "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" or "The Benghazi attack was in response to some nobody making a video"? Those who support him trust him to follow through on the important things like replacing Obamacare, draining the swamp, keep illegals out, and getting the economy moving better for middle and lower class workers.

His tweets are annoying, and some of his facts are suspect. I think even his strongest supporters would admit that he needs to knock it off with the tweets. Has anyone asked him directly where he got the 47% murder rate increase from? Is he speaking about the US, Chicago, or something else? So fare I have found nothing but stories from "journalists" saying it's a lie, but no one getting an answer about where his numbers came from. I'm all for holding politicians accountable for the things they say, I just wish the media would be as diligent with Democrats as they are with Trump.

I want reform, I want budgets cut, I want corruption gone. This should be done with thoughtfulness and planning. He's not doing any of that.

Actually, he is. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/29/trump-im ... thers.html

[K@th]

I was poking you a little Kath, and no, I wasn't worried about if I was included or not.

You're going to have to cite some sources, here, and try to use your reasoning when saying things like, "well, it might come true." Doesn't wash - making a statement of fact is not at all like predicting the future.

(You're statements in red, between my original comment and new comment.)

Millions of illegal immigrants voted in the election.
we don't know, you won't let me ask for IDs and smart check them
Me? LOL .I support voter ID. You should know better than to paint me with that brush. There is no evidence for this claim.

Facing historic delay in getting nominees approved.
Don't know yet, still waiting on confirmations, could be.
He didn't say "I will face historic delay." He claimed it was a fact at that point. He wasn't predicting the future. It's nonsense and you know it.

Murder rate is highest in 45 years.
I have no idea, but probably true in Chicago
His quote "… the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years, right? Did you know that? Forty-seven years. I used to use that — I’d say that in a speech and everybody was surprised, because the press doesn’t tell it like it is. It wasn’t to their advantage to say that. But the murder rate is the highest it’s been in, I guess, from 45 to 47 years."

In fact, murder rate is at historical lows, not historical highs.


Mexico will pay for the wall.
You should love this one, it's semantics, like getting something for free.
He didn't say Mexico will be semantically paying for the wall. (That doesn't mean anything, btw.) He claimed Mexico will pay for it. What he meant was Americans will pay for the wall through higher costs of goods from Mexico. Lie.

Saved millions on the F-35, all by himself, in a matter of minutes.
He did reduce the costs, don't know how long it took.
No evidence for this at all. Price reductions were happening before he took the oath.

Obama had him wire tapped.BUZZZZZZZZZZZZ................
Obama Admin did spy on him, you're parsing semantics and avoiding the intent.
Source?

Obamacare covers very few people.
It's relative, I have a friend who got enrolled 14 months ago, still doesn't have coverage.
Your one friend doesn't have coverage and that makes Trump's statement true? Lol.... you got nuthin'.