Unite the Right

[Speaker to Animals]

Agreed. However, in this age of nuclear weaponry, it is an impossibility.

I think people are ripe for it. Just tell the millennials it's basically the Battlestar Galactica 2.0 government.

Trust me. You do not want to live through the implications of the federal government disbanding.

It wouldn't be that at all, though. We would just replace the federal government with the confederal government, with former obligations transferred to the latter.

[Okeefenokee]

I guess I jumped in here late, I'm not sure what you and Penner were on about before this

I could swear that he was arguing that Lincoln's Empamaction Proclamation caused riots in New York. I said that the only riots that I know of were the Draft Riots, then he started posting something about Longshoremen like this supported his cause. Then I said again, Draft Riots, and then he brought up Gangs of New York. In my opinion, it seems that Okee was wrong originally and is trying to deflect the blame here.

You're too stupid to help.

The summer of '63 riots,

remain the largest civil and racial insurrection in American history, aside from the Civil War itself.

Two months after emancipation, 200 black longshoreman attacked.

Four months later, the largest race riot in US history.

Remember this?

Just take a minute to appreciate this.

The Civil War was about state's rights.

Yeah, the right to own slaves.

The riots were about the draft.

Yeah, being drafted into a war to free slaves.

The riots were race riots as much as they were draft riots. They were killing black people because they didn't want to be drafted to die in a war to free black people who would then take their jobs, which is exactly what happened, as Smitty and I have already shown. Penner is just too fucking completely indoctrinated into her dogma to see anything other than an army of union angels.

[Smitty-48]

I think people are ripe for it. Just tell the millennials it's basically the Battlestar Galactica 2.0 government.

Trust me. You do not want to live through the implications of the federal government disbanding.

It wouldn't be that at all, though. We would just replace the federal government with the confederal government, with former obligations transferred to the latter.

It would still be a federal government, you would simply have the confederated prerogative to opt out, as Quebec does for example. They even opt out on a case by case basis, they've opted out of even signing the constitution in fact, they in effect, have their cake and eat it too.

'And you know what? Doesn't bother me at all, I like having that big stick within our Confederation, as the last resort against federal overreach.

[Okeefenokee]

Gangs of New York depicted the Draft Riots:

The new york draft riots depicted in the film, where blacks were hunted down and killed in the streets, happened in 1863, after emancipation.

Learn

to

read.

What are you arguing about here? Gangs of New York depicts the Draft Riots. Are you saying it was the earlier riots from March?

The draft riots where white Irish hunted down and killed over one hundred black people, burned down their houses, and even burned down a black orphanage? One might think the worst race riot in US history would be called a race riot, rather than a draft riot. Almost seems like someone is trying to obfuscate what it was really about.

[Speaker to Animals]

Trust me. You do not want to live through the implications of the federal government disbanding.

It wouldn't be that at all, though. We would just replace the federal government with the confederal government, with former obligations transferred to the latter.

It would still be a federal government, you would simply have the confederated prerogative to opt out, as Quebec does for example. They even opt out on a case by case basis, they've opted out of even signing the constitution in fact, they in effect, have their cake and eat it too.

I basically would like us to walk back federation a bit just to have a bit more autonomy between regions similar to how Canada runs. Not saying it's utopic, I just don't see how this ends well. The federal government itself is a civil war now since all the regions have to battle for control of it in order to not have their culture destroyed.

[Smitty-48]

It wouldn't be that at all, though. We would just replace the federal government with the confederal government, with former obligations transferred to the latter.

It would still be a federal government, you would simply have the confederated prerogative to opt out, as Quebec does for example. They even opt out on a case by case basis, they've opted out of even signing the constitution in fact, they in effect, have their cake and eat it too.

I basically would like us to walk back federation a bit just to have a bit more autonomy between regions similar to how Canada runs. Not saying it's utopic, I just don't see how this ends well. The federal government itself is a civil war now since all the regions have to battle for control of it in order to not have their culture destroyed.

In the end, you still have common interests, there's enough to bind you together at a confederated level, but having an opt out clause, particularly on a case by case basis, would ratchet down the pressure, as it would no longer be paramount for any particular interests within your federation to have to try to seize dictatorial powers over the rest.

Here we call it the Notwithstanding Clause, which is like a safety valve, to allow opt out rather than blow the Confederation up.

It's almost never invoked by the way, but just the fact that its there, just in case, keeps the pressure from ratcheting up, in of itself.

So for example Quebec's language laws, Francais Uber Alles, that's not technically constitutional in the rest of Canada, but Quebec simply opts out, and none of the rest of us are inclined to go to war over it, and with Nothwithstanding Clause, we wouldn't have any legal basis to even if we were.

[Okeefenokee]

I guess I jumped in here late, I'm not sure what you and Penner were on about before this

This is where it started,

There was no federal overreach. Lincoln was just elected and they freaked out because he was an abolitionist (and I would like to point out Lincoln was more about gradual/generational abolishment). the South took up arms against their own countrymen because Lincoln won.

As with choosing state over his country- he was a military man he should've sided with his country. But you are right, the Civil War was the movement that redefined America. Instead of "well, do I choose my state or my country" it became, "country over state". Still again, their is this group of people that just want to to revert back to "my state" or whatever and want to dissovle the coutnry.

Lincoln was no abolitionist at the start of the war. He thought slavery was evil, and an embarassment to American values, but not really an abolitionist. I know that's what your parenthetical phrase was intended to portray, but it's worth highlighting. Emancipation only became an idea during the war as a way to weaken the South. Of course, it was a weird idea to the Confederates that Lincoln was trying to issue laws to another country.

At the start, Lincoln said that the war was about preserving the Union (which is what it was being fought for by the North, almost no one wanted Abolition enough to got to war over), and that if he could do it without touching slavery in the South, he would.

There were riots in the north after the war's purpose was restated to be emancipation.

Penner tried to peddle her horseshit about the Union and Lincoln declaring war to free the slaves, got called out on it by Katarn, at which time I pointed out that after emancipation, yankees rioted at the notion of being drafted into a war that had gone from a war to preserve the union into a war to free the slaves.

Penner said she never heard of it.

I educated her.

She denies the largest race riot in US history was about race, but was instead about being drafted

into a war

to free slaves

the response to which was to hunt down and kill every black person in sight

and burn down their homes

and an orphanage

because, the draft.

[Penner]

I guess I jumped in here late, I'm not sure what you and Penner were on about before this

I could swear that he was arguing that Lincoln's Empamaction Proclamation caused riots in New York. I said that the only riots that I know of were the Draft Riots, then he started posting something about Longshoremen like this supported his cause. Then I said again, Draft Riots, and then he brought up Gangs of New York. In my opinion, it seems that Okee was wrong originally and is trying to deflect the blame here.

You're too stupid to help.

The summer of '63 riots,

remain the largest civil and racial insurrection in American history, aside from the Civil War itself.

Two months after emancipation, 200 black longshoreman attacked.

Four months later, the largest race riot in US history.

Remember this?

Just take a minute to appreciate this.

The Civil War was about state's rights.

Yeah, the right to own slaves.

The riots were about the draft.

Yeah, being drafted into a war to free slaves.

The riots were race riots as much as they were draft riots. They were killing black people because they didn't want to be drafted to die in a war to free black people who would then take their jobs, which is exactly what happened, as Smitty and I have already shown. Penner is just too fucking completely indoctrinated into her dogma to see anything other than an army of union angels.

All I have been saying is that the Draft Riots were about the US drafts that were affecting the poor, lower-class, and immigrants.

In July of 1863, in the midst of the Civil War, Americans were fighting on battlefields across the country—Vicksburg, Gettysburg, and New York City. The latter battle, which became known as the New York Draft Riots, was not a fight between Union and Confederate troops, however. The three-day riot was the destructive resistance of the city’s immigrant poor against a Congressional mandate that made all men aged twenty to forty-five eligible for the draft—and had a provision that let the rich buy their way out. The fighting left over one hundred people dead and buildings, homes, and orphanages destroyed. In particular, the mob of lower-class workers and immigrant gangs attacked African Americans and the city’s rich before the draft was postponed and militias quelled the violence.

https://dp.la/primary-source-sets/sets/ ... civil-war/

Now that you have been proven wrong you are trying turn this into that I was wrong.

[Ex-California]

Penner, Okee is 100% correct here.

The people were mad about the draft because they were getting drafted and therefore killed over black people. It was definitely racially charged. Sure, they were pissed that some people could buy their way out of it but the main reason was they didn't want to die to free black slaves.

[Smitty-48]

All I have been saying is that the Draft Riots were about the US drafts that were affecting the poor, lower-class, and immigrants.

That's because it was really only a tiny cabal of elites who had any interest in going to war in the first place, which is generally the case in America, certainly since them Yankees invoked the Gulf of Fort Sumter Resolution for all time.