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[StCapps]

The best chemist doesn't win. PEDs are not the super drugs you think they are. PEDs can't turn someone who is average into some amazing, you seem to believe they can, I assure you they can't.

Yet. You start a cola war between sports companies, and you will see crazy shit within a year. The market will be flooded with them.

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. That won't happen because science is nowhere close to that occurring and unbanning and regulating certain PEDs, will not lead to the fantasy world you describe.

[StCapps]

Taking the best supplements is not required for success, it merely helps.

You are contradicting yourself now. If PEDs help everyone is going to use them. This is what lead to widespread cheating in cycling, everyone took drugs because they couldn't compete without them.
Of the 8 atheletes who lined up in that 100m final where Ben Johnson got disqualified all but one went on to get caught using drugs.

So that doesn't mean they won because they took the drugs, correlation doesn't equal causation. They took them because they didn't want to concede an edge they didn't have to, not because it's impossible to win without the PEDs. Also you prove my point about losers using PEDs more often than winners, so why are you attributing success to the PEDs alone when that is the case?

Ben Johnson might have broken the world record without taking steroids, you just assume he only did so because of super drugs, because you don't know shit about steroids.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Taking the best supplements is not required for success, it merely helps.

You are contradicting yourself now. If PEDs help everyone is going to use them. This is what lead to widespread cheating in cycling, everyone took drugs because they couldn't compete without them.
Of the 8 atheletes who lined up in that 100m final where Ben Johnson got disqualified all but one went on to get caught using drugs.

So that doesn't mean they won because they took the drugs, correlation doesn't equal causation. They took them because they didn't want to concede an edge they didn't have to, not because it's impossible to win without it.

Lance Armstrong wins 7 Tour de France's in a row, but the PEDs weren't necessary. Seriously.

[StCapps]

Lance Armstrong wins 7 Tour de France's in a row, but the PEDs weren't necessary. Seriously.

Lance Armstrong competed against dudes taking the same shit and won, the difference was Lance Armstrong, not the PEDs. It wasn't his super chemist who won him the Tour de France, but his chemist did get him passed the drug screenings.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Taking the best supplements is not required for success, it merely helps.

You are contradicting yourself now. If PEDs help everyone is going to use them. This is what lead to widespread cheating in cycling, everyone took drugs because they couldn't compete without them.
Of the 8 atheletes who lined up in that 100m final where Ben Johnson got disqualified all but one went on to get caught using drugs.

So that doesn't mean they won because they took the drugs, correlation doesn't equal causation. They took them because they didn't want to concede an edge they didn't have to, not because it's impossible to win without the PEDs. Also you prove my point about losers using PEDs more often than winners, so why are you attributing success to the PEDs alone when that is the case?

Ben Johnson might have broken the world record without taking steroids, you just assume he only did so because of super drugs, because you don't know shit about steroids.

LOL 7 out of 8 athletes that made it to that elite level were pumping PEDs. Yet, that had nothing to do with them getting there. Holy crap, man...

[SuburbanFarmer]

Lance Armstrong wins 7 Tour de France's in a row, but the PEDs weren't necessary. Seriously.

Lance Armstrong competed against dudes taking the same shit and won, the difference was Lance Armstrong, not the PEDs.

You want to pretend that there were no potentially superior athletes in that entire field for 7 years, that were left behind because they failed to juice?

[StCapps]

LOL 7 out of 8 athletes that made it to that elite level were pumping PEDs. Yet, that had nothing to do with them getting there. Holy crap, man...

When did I say it had nothing to do with it. It allowed them to train harder and longer, and recover from that training faster while reducing injuries sustained in the process. That's not a bad thing, it lets the athletes put in the work they need to be successful, just taking the drugs gets you nowhere, having the best chemist is no guarantee of success in sports, other than passing drug test success, but even that isn't 100%.

[SuburbanFarmer]

LOL 7 out of 8 athletes that made it to that elite level were pumping PEDs. Yet, that had nothing to do with them getting there. Holy crap, man...

When did I say it had nothing to do with it. It allowed them to train harder and longer, and recover from that training faster while reducing injuries sustained in the process. That's not a bad thing, it lets the athletes put in the work they need to be successful, just taking the drugs gets you nowhere.

Yes, but what about the 8th guy that made it WITHOUT them? He is, therefore, the superior athlete, is he not???

[StCapps]

Yes, but what about the 8th guy that made it WITHOUT them? He is, therefore, the superior athlete, is he not???

No he's not. The guys who finished ahead of him are, they put in the work, just because the PEDs allowed them to push themselves harder in training than they would have been able to do without them, that doesn't make them worse athletes. Also maybe the 8th guy was on the drugs, he just didn't get caught. If you have way too much of a PED in your system, that shouldn't be allowed, but outright bans on PEDs, they do no one any good.

[Montegriffo]

The best chemist doesn't win. PEDs are not the super drugs you think they are. PEDs can't turn someone who is average into some unstoppable freak of nature, you seem to believe they can, I assure you they can't. They give competitors an edge in competition, but it is not the decisive edge that you imagine out of ignorance of PEDs.

No one is saying PEDs will turn a no hoper into a winner. What they will do is turn the fourth or fifth fastest man into the winner. Ben Johnson was not going to beat Carl Lewis unless he cheated.