Another School Shooting

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DrYouth
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by DrYouth » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:43 pm

GloryofGreece wrote:So do you think all humans are essentially more competitive than cooperative? Mutual benefit, aid, and/or cooperation doesn't really exist or play a large role in human character traits?
According to Fukuyama the ties of tribal kinship must be broken down to achieve the large scale cooperation needed at the level of the scale of western civilization. In the west this was achieved through Christianity, a celibate priesthood and increasing property rights for women.

Christianity broke down tribal religious traditions and this seed of revolution continued to break down even the hierarchical system of catholicism itself with the protestant revolution, monarchical power with the Glorious revolution, the French Revolution and the American Revolution. The enlightenment enshrined these individualistic virtues and the west has since achieved a new pinnacle of individualism, atomizing the tribe down to the level of the nuclear family and finally making this an endangered social structure of it's own. Individualism now transcends even gender roles.

None of this is genetic... it is driven by social forces that come into play as humanity has proliferated and our cooperative tendencies have had to account for increasing contact across cultures as empires attempted to digest diverse cultures into a greater whole. Religions have played a major role in this process, but increasingly secular ideologies have taken over.
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:09 pm

Tribal kin bonds are genetic behaviors, though. This Enlightenment view of humans all being the same blank slates (or really just cogs in an economic machine) is wrong.

The truth of it is obvious. Tribal races don't do so well in civilization. Like nowhere on Earth do they do well. It takes many, many generations of selection to weed out those traits.

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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by DrYouth » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:18 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:Tribal kin bonds are genetic behaviors, though. This Enlightenment view of humans all being the same blank slates (or really just cogs in an economic machine) is wrong.

The truth of it is obvious. Tribal races don't do so well in civilization. Like nowhere on Earth do they do well. It takes many, many generations of selection to weed out those traits.
Fukuyama gives a number of examples of reversion back to tribal lines with social breakdown. Those traits haven't been weeded out. They can easily be reestablished. It's our technology that maintains isolation now. We drive and fly to opposite sides of the country, or to other countries. We take in national and global media. We remain indoors because of our televisions, computers and A/C. If there was a disruption in technology, this would cease, and we would reform local bonds, reverting to tribal relationships within a few generations at most.
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty

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clubgop
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by clubgop » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:01 am

DrYouth wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:Tribal kin bonds are genetic behaviors, though. This Enlightenment view of humans all being the same blank slates (or really just cogs in an economic machine) is wrong.

The truth of it is obvious. Tribal races don't do so well in civilization. Like nowhere on Earth do they do well. It t Wait akes many, many generations of selection to weed out those traits.
Fukuyama gives a number of examples of reversion back to tribal lines with social breakdown. Those traits haven't been weeded out. They can easily be reestablished. It's our technology that maintains isolation now. We drive and fly to opposite sides of the country, or to other countries. We take in national and global media. We remain indoors because of our televisions, computers and A/C. If there was a disruption in technology, this would cease, and we would reform local bonds, reverting to tribal relationships within a few generations at most.
Wait aren't our tribal proclivities worse in isolation? I mean on social networks and such?

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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by Speaker to Animals » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:27 am

DrYouth wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:Tribal kin bonds are genetic behaviors, though. This Enlightenment view of humans all being the same blank slates (or really just cogs in an economic machine) is wrong.

The truth of it is obvious. Tribal races don't do so well in civilization. Like nowhere on Earth do they do well. It takes many, many generations of selection to weed out those traits.
Fukuyama gives a number of examples of reversion back to tribal lines with social breakdown. Those traits haven't been weeded out. They can easily be reestablished. It's our technology that maintains isolation now. We drive and fly to opposite sides of the country, or to other countries. We take in national and global media. We remain indoors because of our televisions, computers and A/C. If there was a disruption in technology, this would cease, and we would reform local bonds, reverting to tribal relationships within a few generations at most.

I think you are confusing two different things. We can potentially degenerate into something like a tribal social structure pretty fast if civilization collapses, but we do so out of necessity. Intellectually, we all know how to do it, so if we need to we will. But genetically, we are high-trust and fairly civil people.

It doesn't seem to work the other way. Most of sub-Saharan Africa knows perfectly well how western civilization works but they can't just do it. We can tell them they need to encourage certain principles and values, rule of law, etc., but that doesn't mean they can actually do those things even if they want to. And they do want it. They just can't do it.

It's not that simple because civilizations have strong racial components to them.

You can see the process play out in relative recent history with Scotland and Ireland. Scotland was tribal up until a few centuries ago. It took a long time for them to get to where they are and they are still kind of cunts when you really step back and think about it.


There is also the degeneration we see today. Government policies that reward women for breeding with the worst thugs and becoming single mothers is literally degenerating our people right now. Consider that culture, social norms, and even government policies are also environmental variables in genetic evolution. It's a kind of feedback loop. It's why I consider what we call the "left" to be nothing more than degeneracy or anti-civilizational tendencies rationalized after the fact into a kind of pseudo-political ideology.

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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by Speaker to Animals » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:33 am

Furthermore, this idea that all races and nations of people are somehow "equal" in the ability to construct, maintain, and live in advanced civilizations is the equality of outcomes garbage of cultural Marxism writ large on the genetic level.

It took our ancestors in Northern Europe about a thousand years to foster these kinds of changes in ourselves in order to achieve what we have. Just assuming everybody else can get the fruits of that project without the time and effort is not really very different from assuming everybody should enjoy the same income and wealth regardless of the work, talent, and intellectual differences.

We are all equal before God. We ought to be all equal before the law. But we sure as shit are not equal in all things. I wish I could build muscle like a black dude, but I can't. I wish I could sprint as fast as them too, but I can't. I wish we all had the higher IQ of Jews and Chinese, but we don't.

At some point we have to be honest about how biology plays a part in the human world.

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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by C-Mag » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:43 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:Furthermore, this idea that all races and nations of people are somehow "equal" in the ability to construct, maintain, and live in advanced civilizations is the equality of outcomes garbage of cultural Marxism writ large on the genetic level.

It took our ancestors in Northern Europe about a thousand years to foster these kinds of changes in ourselves in order to achieve what we have. Just assuming everybody else can get the fruits of that project without the time and effort is not really very different from assuming everybody should enjoy the same income and wealth regardless of the work, talent, and intellectual differences.

We are all equal before God. We ought to be all equal before the law. But we sure as shit are not equal in all things. I wish I could build muscle like a black dude, but I can't. I wish I could sprint as fast as them too, but I can't. I wish we all had the higher IQ of Jews and Chinese, but we don't.

At some point we have to be honest about how biology plays a part in the human world.
Those are logical cogent statements............................. that will get you pilloried in our society for the last 40 years.


We never really hit a society about merit. we zoomed past civil rights to punishing whites.
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DrYouth
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by DrYouth » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:25 am

clubgop wrote:Wait aren't our tribal proclivities worse in isolation? I mean on social networks and such?
Social networks are anonymous.
Tribal bonds are among kin.
We are finding a proxy for these relations online among like minded people... but these are not our kin.
So very very different in how it plays out practically speaking.
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty

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clubgop
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by clubgop » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:32 am

DrYouth wrote:
clubgop wrote:Wait aren't our tribal proclivities worse in isolation? I mean on social networks and such?
Social networks are anonymous.
Tribal bonds are among kin.
We are finding a proxy for these relations online among like minded people... but these are not our kin.
So very very different in how it plays out practically speaking.
That anonymity is false though people say things on that they wouldn't say face to face yet we all know who said it. You are not anonymous on facebook.

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DrYouth
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by DrYouth » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:58 am

clubgop wrote:That anonymity is false though people say things on that they wouldn't say face to face yet we all know who said it. You are not anonymous on facebook.
Sure enough...
Social media creates ideological silos.
They aren't kin based silos for the most part - so I wouldn't use the word tribal for that reason.
But I totally know what you mean.
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty