Preparing for Uncertainty and Self Reliance

[heydaralon]

I used to be a boy scout in middle school. We would camp and backpack. It was a lot of fun. One of the main selling points of boy scouts was that it prepared you for survival situations. If you can get past their gay ass uniforms, there is a lot of good skills to be learned. I made shelters using palm fronds and sticks, learned about plants and wildlife, learned first aid, knife and hatchet uses and safety, cooking, and knot-tying (no my scoutmaster did not molest me). I feel like Boy Scouts could make a comeback if it framed itself as a prepper-lite type thing. There are plenty of parents worried about the future that would love to have an organization teach their kids survival skills. I guess if you really want to learn good survival skills though the best place is the military.

[C-Mag]

I'm very interested in this, actually... And this should probably go in that Self-Reliance thread we had going.

How possible is it to raise cattle 'organically' these days? Can modern breeds do without the heavy antibiotic/hormone regimens that feed lots use?
How cheap could you get your raising process down to - just open grass lot, and somewhere covered to sleep?

As Doc said, very doable. You need just a few acres, 3-4 irrigated acres with good grass will feed one beef for a year. If not irrigated you are looking at 10+ acres. I have a certain advantage that I was raised on a cattle ranch. But even then, the amount of stuff I have forgotten is considerable.
You can buy orphan calves for as little as $50-100 for a Dairy Bull calf, but they will not put on much meat for a couple years. Dairy heifer calves cost more because they are potential milk producers. An orphan beef calf will run $300-$350. Then you have to bottle feed with milk replacement. 2 quarts, 3 times per day. Cost is approximately $10-15 per week. This continues for 3 months. You can also start them on milk pellets. In 3-4 months the calf should be eating grass and you can start to wean them off the bottle. As long as you have plenty of grass, that's about it until winter.

One isolated animal is not likely to contract any diseases, but there are some basic inoculations to do, cost no more than $20. Easy to give, you can do it yourself. You don't need hormones or supplements. In one year, with good feed, an Angus calf should be around 800 pounds. Now if you really want prime great beef, go 3-4 years with a steer. The animal will weigh 1200 to 1500 pounds and will have a rib eye the size of a dinner plate with the best flavor you've ever tasted. But that's a huge investment.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I'm very interested in this, actually... And this should probably go in that Self-Reliance thread we had going.

How possible is it to raise cattle 'organically' these days? Can modern breeds do without the heavy antibiotic/hormone regimens that feed lots use?
How cheap could you get your raising process down to - just open grass lot, and somewhere covered to sleep?

As Doc said, very doable. You need just a few acres, 3-4 irrigated acres with good grass will feed one beef for a year. If not irrigated you are looking at 10+ acres. I have a certain advantage that I was raised on a cattle ranch. But even then, the amount of stuff I have forgotten is considerable.
You can buy orphan calves for as little as $50-100 for a Dairy Bull calf, but they will not put on much meat for a couple years. Dairy heifer calves cost more because they are potential milk producers. An orphan beef calf will run $300-$350. Then you have to bottle feed with milk replacement. 2 quarts, 3 times per day. Cost is approximately $10-15 per week. This continues for 3 months. You can also start them on milk pellets. In 3-4 months the calf should be eating grass and you can start to wean them off the bottle. As long as you have plenty of grass, that's about it until winter.

One isolated animal is not likely to contract any diseases, but there are some basic inoculations to do, cost no more than $20. Easy to give, you can do it yourself. You don't need hormones or supplements. In one year, with good feed, an Angus calf should be around 800 pounds. Now if you really want prime great beef, go 3-4 years with a steer. The animal will weigh 1200 to 1500 pounds and will have a rib eye the size of a dinner plate with the best flavor you've ever tasted. But that's a huge investment.

There's also the risk of getting your ass run over by your dinner LOL I haven't had much experience around big animals like that, so that would be a definite barrier to entry... I'm optimistic that I could get something feasible together in the next few years tho.

This is one of those areas where you'd absolutely need an experienced mentor-type to show you the ropes, I think.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I used to be a boy scout in middle school. We would camp and backpack. It was a lot of fun. One of the main selling points of boy scouts was that it prepared you for survival situations. If you can get past their gay ass uniforms, there is a lot of good skills to be learned. I made shelters using palm fronds and sticks, learned about plants and wildlife, learned first aid, knife and hatchet uses and safety, cooking, and knot-tying (no my scoutmaster did not molest me). I feel like Boy Scouts could make a comeback if it framed itself as a prepper-lite type thing. There are plenty of parents worried about the future that would love to have an organization teach their kids survival skills. I guess if you really want to learn good survival skills though the best place is the military.

You're making me regret not pushing the kids more into Scouting. I just don't have any more time for activities right now..

[Speaker to Animals]

Well, you don't just let them run around free east of the Mississippi. They have to stay in their own corral.

[C-Mag]

This conversation moved from the Era of Trump where we started talking about Beef prices.

If you have land, it's actually very doable. Lots of people do it around where I live. You don't have to do much but ensure they have enough grass to graze one (and probably buy feed in the winter, though I am unsure if that's even necessary for most places). You might need to pay for a vet to check on them once a year or so. When it's time to butcher them, there are people that will come and take them for that, and will pay you for the meat in addition to what you keep that you are willing to give up.

For the purposes of self-reliance.. learning to butcher a cow would not be fun. But if you are hungry enough, that won't matter one bit.

Well, I'd probably work my way into it, like anything else. Keep us updated on your calf's progress, please.

I imagine I'd start like you're doing, just watch very closely while the mobile butcher chops up Daisy for you, and research a bit for next time. I suspect that breeding them wouldn't be terribly difficult either - despite all of the ridiculous manhandling that happens in factory farms. Just let nature take its course and such.

I let you know how it's going periodically.

Butchering is not difficult at all........................... if you know what you are doing. Most people don't. Even most hunters don't know what they are doing. Like anything else, there are tricks to the trade. Butchering a 200 pound deer is childs play next to a 500 pound elk or a 1000 pound beef.

Now you can do it all with as little as a sharp knife and a hatchet. But if you want to produce a T-Bone, you will need a meat saw. Having a place to hang and age the meat is important. This is why I will butcher in February, the temp is right and I can age the meat properly. 7-21 days at 40-45 degrees F is generally the rule of thumb for beef. Many chefs swear by 21 days, but University Ag research places generally say not over 10.

[C-Mag]

Well, you don't just let them run around free east of the Mississippi. They have to stay in their own corral.

People should start with smaller livestock first, goats, sheep, pigs and work their way up. Oh yeah, a 1500 pound steer can wreck some shit.

[Speaker to Animals]

Well, you don't just let them run around free east of the Mississippi. They have to stay in their own corral.

People should start with smaller livestock first, goats, sheep, pigs and work their way up. Oh yeah, a 1500 pound steer can wreck some shit.

A family down the road from me has about a dozen goats. They are pretty cool. I wonder how much milk they get from that.

[heydaralon]

I used to be a boy scout in middle school. We would camp and backpack. It was a lot of fun. One of the main selling points of boy scouts was that it prepared you for survival situations. If you can get past their gay ass uniforms, there is a lot of good skills to be learned. I made shelters using palm fronds and sticks, learned about plants and wildlife, learned first aid, knife and hatchet uses and safety, cooking, and knot-tying (no my scoutmaster did not molest me). I feel like Boy Scouts could make a comeback if it framed itself as a prepper-lite type thing. There are plenty of parents worried about the future that would love to have an organization teach their kids survival skills. I guess if you really want to learn good survival skills though the best place is the military.

You're making me regret not pushing the kids more into Scouting. I just don't have any more time for activities right now..

Eagle Scout looks great on a college application as well as a resume. I only made it to star rank. I never really cared about the institutional aspect of it though. I always like camping and canoeing with my friends. I saw some beautiful scenery throughout the Southeast and some of my most vivid memories come from the campouts. From your kids perspective though, Scouting is about as uncool as it gets. I remember one time when this kid wore a boy scout uniform to school and he got mocked mercilessly. I did not talk about it with people my age unless they were also scouts lol. You can replicate a lot of the experience by buying a tent at bass pro shops and taking your family out in the woods for a weekend. Or rent a canoe with them. I still enjoy a lot of those activities.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I used to be a boy scout in middle school. We would camp and backpack. It was a lot of fun. One of the main selling points of boy scouts was that it prepared you for survival situations. If you can get past their gay ass uniforms, there is a lot of good skills to be learned. I made shelters using palm fronds and sticks, learned about plants and wildlife, learned first aid, knife and hatchet uses and safety, cooking, and knot-tying (no my scoutmaster did not molest me). I feel like Boy Scouts could make a comeback if it framed itself as a prepper-lite type thing. There are plenty of parents worried about the future that would love to have an organization teach their kids survival skills. I guess if you really want to learn good survival skills though the best place is the military.

You're making me regret not pushing the kids more into Scouting. I just don't have any more time for activities right now..

Eagle Scout looks great on a college application as well as a resume. I only made it to star rank. I never really cared about the institutional aspect of it though. I always like camping and canoeing with my friends. I saw some beautiful scenery throughout the Southeast and some of my most vivid memories come from the campouts. From your kids perspective though, Scouting is about as uncool as it gets. I remember one time when this kid wore a boy scout uniform to school and he got mocked mercilessly. I did not talk about it with people my age unless they were also scouts lol. You can replicate a lot of the experience by buying a tent at bass pro shops and taking your family out in the woods for a weekend. Or rent a canoe with them. I still enjoy a lot of those activities.

Oh for sure. We do an annual tubin' trip down in central Ohio, but the tents may not be making a comeback. We discovered "glamping" last year, with a relative's deluxe trailer to hang out in. That's a WHOLE lot less work than playing with tentpoles and blankets, etc.. But the fire-building, guitar-playing, and meat-cooking skills are still an integral part of the trip.