How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

[The Conservative]

People need to realize there is a difference between health care and health insurance...

[jbird4049]

People need to realize there is a difference between health care and health insurance...

That's true. However, without the latter, you often cannot get the former here in the United States.

[The Conservative]

People need to realize there is a difference between health care and health insurance...

That's true. However, without the latter, you often cannot get the former here in the United States.

At this point in time, I don't see why not... The US government spends nearly 2 Trillion on ObamaCare, That is about 6,700 a year per person... if we include all 300 Million people in the US... to "guarantee health insurance" for the people of the US.

How about instead of spending that money on insurance companies, which pockets the majority of the money via overhead, we actually guarantee health care for the people of the US, by pooling that money together to provide services to the American People? What isn't spent in a year, gets pooled into next year's budget, and the different gets to be put into paying off the national debt.

[Fife]

Where did that $6,700 per cap come from?

[atanamis]

Jesus Christ, the military is 100% totalitarian socialism! The judiciary, which includes police, is 100% totalitarian socialism. You want a whole nation of socialists, just make life fucking hard, the masses will vote the whole thing socialist quick enough.

I completely and totally agree that the military and judiciary are 100% socialist institutions. Where I disagree is that we are mostly keeping costs under control or abuse restrained. The US military is a massive economic boondoggle. We are spending probably twice what we should be for things that don't make us safer or better off. The military can go to Congress and state that certain programs or bases are providing no value, and yet Congress keeps funding them because it provides them political advantage to do so. The rampant abuses by police departments across this country are visible for anyone to see.

But I also agree with you that healthcare is essential. I use the word essential specifically to avoid the discussion of what constitute natural rights or privileges, but it is essential in the sense that I don't think there is any question that we are on a path to revolution if we don't fix it. A person who is starving doesn't care about your property rights and will steal, riot, or revolt to save themselves and their family from starvation. A person whose child has a medical need will tend to do likewise. Again, I am a huge fan of markets and think there is a place for them in health care, but there is also a moral and utilitarian mandate to ensure that people are able to get the medical care they need. Finding a way to implement a health care system that really works for everyone is critical.

Since socialized benefits have no built-in efficiency feedback, they will eventually be overwhelmed by inefficiency. The military & judiciary have very gross cost controls that seem to be working but I don't know. Socialism is tough which is why it should be limited to the 5 essential operations of government: protection, environment, healthcare, judiciary & social security.

Did you intentionally not include education here? Are food and housing on your list of essential operations, or are they part of healthcare or social security?

[Martin Hash]

When I use the word "socialism," I mean government run. Education should be government financed but not government run. (It should be vouchers.) Food, housing, etc. are Social-Safetynet stuff, and should be (State) "charity," meaning the recipients have obligations to us, not the other way around.

[ssu]

People need to realize there is a difference between health care and health insurance...

With universal health care there isn't such difference: you don't need to buy separately health insurance, even if people can have voluntary health insurances.

Just to give an example,

Here's a quick prime on an universal health care system, which uh, is cheaper per capita than the US system:



And here is that health care system compared to the US health care system (from 2014):

[C-Mag]

My position on this is, just let Obamacare live or die on it's own merits.

No modifications, no bailouts of anyone. It either works of fails.

If it works fine.
If it fails replace it then.

BHO can have all the credit or blame depending on how it turns out. Congress, quit wasting our time discussing this shit again, we just did this like 6 years ago. Get on to more important shit.

[Fife]

My position on this is, just let Obamacare live or die on it's own merits.

No modifications, no bailouts of anyone. It either works of fails.

If it works fine.
If it fails replace it then.

BHO can have all the credit or blame depending on how it turns out. Congress, quit wasting our time discussing this shit again, we just did this like 6 years ago. Get on to more important shit.

BHO who?

Barry is getting washed in the blood of the lamb before your eyes at this very moment.

This is Ryan/Trump's tar baby now.

[C-Mag]

My position on this is, just let Obamacare live or die on it's own merits.

No modifications, no bailouts of anyone. It either works of fails.

If it works fine.
If it fails replace it then.

BHO can have all the credit or blame depending on how it turns out. Congress, quit wasting our time discussing this shit again, we just did this like 6 years ago. Get on to more important shit.

BHO who?

Barry is getting washed in the blood of the lamb before your eyes at this very moment.

This is Ryan/Trump's tar baby now.

I'm saying the GOP should just come out and say. Too much resistance from the Democrats, you win, we will discuss Health Care based on how Obamacare performs from here out. But we are not doing any modifications or bailing anything out.

Basically reverse course.

Laura Ingraham says Ryan-Care is a trap for Trump. I don't know, it's a turd. Let's not waste our time by debating it or voting on it. I've been told for 6 years Obamacare is the shit. Has to be done. We will perish as a nation without it. There will be millions of dead babies in the street if we don't pass Obamacare.