Another School Shooting

[nmoore63]

As a descendent of settlers, I am skeptical of your settlers theory.

People that have lived in New York for generations have that identity, regardless of whether or not they were the first Dutch to move in.

I am also skeptical of your "saved by military service alone theory." Any group endeavor can be sufficient.

[Speaker to Animals]

As a descendent of settlers, I am skeptical of your settlers theory.

People that have lived in New York for generations have that identity, regardless of whether or not they were the first Dutch to move in.

I am also skeptical of your "saved by military service alone theory." Any group endeavor can be sufficient.

What identity?

I never claimed they lack any identity. My claim is that the civic nationalist identity propagated since the 1960s is too shallow and vacuous to hold the nation together long term. We already see the disintegration in process.

Seriously, what do you think being "American" means to the average urban progressive who is maybe fourth or fifth generation at most?

Send that guy to the Army and it will mean something more but, even there, the time will come when our identity is the military rather than American.

[nmoore63]

As a descendent of settlers, I am skeptical of your settlers theory.

People that have lived in New York for generations have that identity, regardless of whether or not they were the first Dutch to move in.

I am also skeptical of your "saved by military service alone theory." Any group endeavor can be sufficient.

What identity?

I never claimed they lack any identity. My claim is that the civic nationalist identity propagated since the 1960s is too shallow and vacuous to hold the nation together long term. We already see the disintegration in process.

Seriously, what do you think being "American" means to the average urban progressive who is maybe fourth or fifth generation at most?

I would agree. I have less in common with New Yorkers every day.

But I would counter that the South's definition of "American" isn't a more true definition than some Yankee Urbanite.

[DrYouth]

My claim is that the civic nationalist identity propagated since the 1960s is too shallow and vacuous to hold the nation together long term. We already see the disintegration in process.

Yep...

This is think is where Cooper was going in his "Decline of the West" podcast...

These vacuous identities are not holding water.

Empire has always declined... it's the wars of expansion that hold it together... with the military discipline that this involves.

What kills the empire eventually is the fragmentation that becomes evident once the expansion has reached it's zenith...having incompletely digested too many cultures that cannot successfully integrate.

We need an envelope of joint identity to hold the project together and it needs to be more than skin deep.

[C-Mag]

What would taking (more, better) responsibility look like/have looked like for the school and law enforcement? If the danger the teachers percieved, and the LEO's phone calls about him had been taken more seriously, what should ideally have happened? Taken Cruz in for questioning based on....what? Looking threatening and writing morbid fantasies? Demanded he go into treatment? Kept a watch on him after questioning for....how many days? And how would you know when and where to start following him? Surveillance, wire?

Schools should take all responsible actions to contral access to the school.

1. Access -Parkland school access control sucked so bad, that Davey Hogg was able to learn of the shooting while at home, grab a camera, gain access to the school and make video.

2. Know your Threats - Nikolas Cruz was on SSRI drugs, again, Cruz is the classic profile of a school shooter. 15-21, male, access to firearms, troubled kid, family issues, on SSRI drugs. He was an identified threat in school, but no staffer did anything prior to shots being fired.

3. Restrict Threats - School failed to expell Cruz, Local LEOs failed to deal with the known threat prior, as did the FBI.

4. Reaction to Threats - School LEOs failed to react. Was their an active shooter plan in place ? Was there a mass casualty plan?

5. Training and Rehearsal - Were school staff trained for active shooters, did they rehearse, why did the staff fail so badly through the shooting, how was Cruz able to enter, employ weapons, kill 17, then leave the school.

6. Do teachers and staff have any tools and training available to themselves to stop shooters or reduce their effectiveness? There are a lot of non-lethal options avaialbe.

Schools are the Battleground we are being engaged on, we can't let people distract us away from that reality.

[SuburbanFarmer]

My claim is that the civic nationalist identity propagated since the 1960s is too shallow and vacuous to hold the nation together long term. We already see the disintegration in process.

Yep...

This is think is where Cooper was going in his "Decline of the West" podcast...

These vacuous identities are not holding water.

Empire has always declined... it's the wars of expansion that hold it together... with the military discipline that this involves.

What kills the empire eventually is the fragmentation that becomes evident once the expansion has reached it's zenith...having incompletely digested too many cultures that cannot successfully integrate.

We need an envelope of joint identity to hold the project together and it needs to be more than skin deep.

I'm starting that podcast now.

It's amazing that we still create empires over, and over, and over, only to face the same fate, for the same reasons. At some point, we have to learn the lesson, or die out.

[DrYouth]

Now the empires aren't military conquest... they are economic conquests... of sorts.

[Speaker to Animals]

As a descendent of settlers, I am skeptical of your settlers theory.

People that have lived in New York for generations have that identity, regardless of whether or not they were the first Dutch to move in.

I am also skeptical of your "saved by military service alone theory." Any group endeavor can be sufficient.

What identity?

I never claimed they lack any identity. My claim is that the civic nationalist identity propagated since the 1960s is too shallow and vacuous to hold the nation together long term. We already see the disintegration in process.

Seriously, what do you think being "American" means to the average urban progressive who is maybe fourth or fifth generation at most?

I would agree. I have less in common with New Yorkers every day.

But I would counter that the South's definition of "American" isn't a more true definition than some Yankee Urbanite.

Well, I have argued that as well. We are not, and never were, one nation. The South is arguably it's own nation, probably the most viable nation to spin off from the United States right now.

The civic nationalist identity is the one that claims to encompass everybody. It is why the government invented the pledge of allegiance, and why the government has gone out of it's way to destroy regional identities ever since the Civil War.

The initial configuration made the most sense. We identified with our families first, then communities, then states, then region, and lastly as a general concept of "American". America, in terms of identity, would better work in the sense of Hellenic Greece. When the Persians came along, they were all Greeks and fought together. Otherwise, they were their own thing.

The government has destroyed everything but "American" and then rendered it utterly meaningless with open borders and multiculturalism.

[DBTrek]

Go tell the IRS you’re not part of America. Let me know how that goes.

[Speaker to Animals]

A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.[1] It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring


Also described as: fucking beside the point.