NHL 2017 -Official Discussion Thread

[Hastur]

OK. Got it.
Guess he will stay in Rögle next season then. It's a Swedish club btw not Swiss.

Switzerland, Sweden, same thing, bear in mind, my country is as big as your whole continent, it's like the difference between New Brunswick and PEI, which, again, same thing.

I thought they might have done it just to spite Mark Hunter who reportedly wanted him to play for the London Knights.

Nah, trades are pretty easy to execute in the OHL, if London really wanted him, they could get him, there's no salaries to worry about or anything like that, however, I think the Leafs just want stability, the reason they pulled Nylander out of Sweden was because Modo was a mess, if they think Rogle is not getting it done, they'll prolly do the same thing. Really tho, Liljegren's skating is so elite, he could play in the AHL right now, so if they feel the need, they'll bring him to the Marlboros and hand him over to Sheldon Keefe.

I don't know why, maybe it's just Nylander, but I don't think Liljegren is that far away, they won't rush him, he's got to put some more muscle mass on, and that will take a year or two, but I think it will be Sweden this year, Marlies next year, Leafs the year after that, because it really just comes down to man strength, other than that, he's too good for the AHL already.

So this OHLinsiders on Twitter is just full of crap. I suspected it might have been the case.
https://twitter.com/OHLinsiders/status/ ... 5511043072
Rögle ended dead last last season of the SHL but managed to keep their place in the qualifiers. I would say they are in similar situation to what Modo was in. You might want to get him over there rather than staying in Sweden and learn to be a loser.

[Smitty-48]

OK. Got it.
Guess he will stay in Rögle next season then. It's a Swedish club btw not Swiss.

Switzerland, Sweden, same thing, bear in mind, my country is as big as your whole continent, it's like the difference between New Brunswick and PEI, which, again, same thing.

I thought they might have done it just to spite Mark Hunter who reportedly wanted him to play for the London Knights.

Nah, trades are pretty easy to execute in the OHL, if London really wanted him, they could get him, there's no salaries to worry about or anything like that, however, I think the Leafs just want stability, the reason they pulled Nylander out of Sweden was because Modo was a mess, if they think Rogle is not getting it done, they'll prolly do the same thing. Really tho, Liljegren's skating is so elite, he could play in the AHL right now, so if they feel the need, they'll bring him to the Marlboros and hand him over to Sheldon Keefe.

I don't know why, maybe it's just Nylander, but I don't think Liljegren is that far away, they won't rush him, he's got to put some more muscle mass on, and that will take a year or two, but I think it will be Sweden this year, Marlies next year, Leafs the year after that, because it really just comes down to man strength, other than that, he's too good for the AHL already.

So this OHLinsiders on Twitter is just full of crap. I suspected it might have been the case.
https://twitter.com/OHLinsiders/status/ ... 5511043072
Rögle ended dead last last season of the SHL but managed to keep their place in the qualifiers. I would say they are in similar situation to what Modo was in. You might want to get him over there rather than staying in Sweden and learn to be a loser.

Well, maybe the Knights are furious, I don't know, but the Leafs and the Knights are not actually linked at the hip like that, Hunter is not the boss on the Leafs, Lamoriello doesn't really prioritize the Knights, if there was an OHL issue, it would more be about an OHL team that really sucked vs one which was in the groove, but would Lamoriello care if Liljegren went to Windsor instead of London? Nah.

The thing is, Liljegren is already elite at the OHL level, quite frankly, if he was bigger, like 210 lbs, he'd could be going straight to the Leafs and Babcock, again, it's more about giving him time in the gym, he's already got NHL skills right now.

I don't think he's Karlsson, he's more like Karlsson-lite, but Karlsson-lite, is still a top four defensemen in the NHL. Who would he really have to beat out for a job right now? Connor Carrick? I think the Leafs are just going to send him back to Sweden, because they're looking for a more experienced defenseman at four, but is Liljegren better than Connor Carrick right now? He's not that far off.

Is he tougher than Connor Carrick? No, of course not, Carrick is a tough little sob, but, in the Babcock system, just get the puck up the ice as quick as possible, can Connor Carrick touch Liljegren on his best day? No, he leaves Carrick in the dust.

I think the Leafs are going to give Calle Roe-Sayun and the Borg-Man a chance first, keep Liljegren hungry in the hip pocket, but a year from now, if Liljegren has put on ten pounds of muscle? I don't see how they keep that kind of skill off the team. It's not Scott Steven's league anymore, the Leafs will need a bruiser or two, but really, it's all about possession and speed now, Willy Nylander is hardly a complete NHL player yet, but he's so fast and so skilled, he's just too good for the AHL, and I see a lot of Nylander in Liljegren.

In fact, with players like that, they often actually play better in the NHL than they do in the AHL, because the AHL just doesn't have the skill to compliment them, this was the case with Nylander, he looked way better on the Leafs then he ever did on the Marlies, you have to put him with a Matthews, for maximum effect.

This Leafs management team now, they are very systematic, they will look at Liljegren at the rookie camp, they will look at him at training camp, he will control his own destiny, because one thing Mitch Marner proved, if you make the team you make the team, there is a level of speed, skill and execution, which will trump age and muscle mass, so we'll just have to see what Liljegren can do, the Leafs don't mess about, if the kid has it, Babcock will take him, and fire a veteran if he has too, the Leafs are all business, there's no sentimentality down there, so if he outplays Connor Carrick, buh-bye Connor Carrick, you just lost your job to some hippie from Sweden. When will that be? Probably not this year, but I wouldn't be expecting him in the OHL any time soon neither. The Leafs can't control things in Sweden, but if they think Rogle is dragging him down, I'd say he's going to the A.

We'll see how he looks against CHL players at the rookie camp in a couple weeks, that's like early preview week, then we'll see him in actual games against AHL players, at the rookie tournament, then he comes to training camp for some exhibition NHL games, so we'll have a better sense of where he's at by October.

One thing Hunter said about him tho, is that the kid is "very honest about his game", in that he doesn't try to bullshit himself or anybody else about what his flaws are, so when he said "I think I need another year in Sweden, then I think I can make the Leafs", that's not him being cocky, because according the interview process, he's not actually cocky at all.

[StCapps]

The rap on him in the media is that he's bad defensively, but that's not what the scouts say, they say he's actually quite responsible defensively, and he's not afraid to engage physically, the issue is more that he is so good with the puck, he tries to do too much, he's too fancy, so it's more about getting him to simplify his game, know when to go and not to go basically.

Meh, the same thing can basically be said of almost any good young offensive defensemen at this point in there development.
/shrugs

[Smitty-48]

The rap on him in the media is that he's bad defensively, but that's not what the scouts say, they say he's actually quite responsible defensively, and he's not afraid to engage physically, the issue is more that he is so good with the puck, he tries to do too much, he's too fancy, so it's more about getting him to simplify his game, know when to go and not to go basically.

Meh, the same thing can basically be said of almost any good young offensive defensemen at this point in there development.
/shrugs

Well, except most of them don't skate like Karlsson, looking at the Leafs depth, there's nobody who can skate like this kid, except Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly and Gardiner, so in terms of making the team, Liljegeren could be close, if he can adjust his decision making, maybe he can't, could be a bust, never know, but all things being equal, I don't see him as a four year project in terms of making the team.

For example, Connor Carrick is a "good young rushing defenseman" too, and at the AHL level he is very effective, but at the NHL level, Carrick is too slow, and since he's not big, he's a tweener, whereas Liljegren has the wheels to not be a tweener, he's not going to be big, but he is fast enough already.

This is why I like the picks Liljegren then Rasanen, because clearly the Leafs are swinging for the fences in the early rounds, you can get tweeners like Connor Carrick in the later rounds, in the first two rounds, even if they need work before they are NHL ready, you shoot for the highest upside, either Karlsson fast, or Chara big, something that sets them apart, then you can find bottom pairing tweeners later on.

To wit, Connor Carrick is more NHL ready, but no matter how much he trains, he's never going to turn into Sami Vatanen, nor Josh Manson, he's a classic tweener. If Connor Carrick was 6'3" 215lbs, he'd be on the top pairing with Rielly, if Connor Carrick could skate like Liljgeren, he'd be on the top paring with Rielly, but since he's neither, he's a 6-7D, perhaps he can replace Matt Hunwick, but he's never going to be a Rielly.

Rasanen same-same, whatever he is, he's not a tweener, he's never going to skate like Liljegren, but he isn't actually a pylon, and as Babs would say; he's 6'7" 215lbs, every shift. if Barb Underhill can get Rasanen up to just Roman Polak pace, he's FInnish Chara, because in the gym with Gary Roberts, he likely tops out at over 250lbs, and according to his boss Doug Gilmour, he already thinks the game like an NHL pro, they went to the import draft thinking he might be a coke machine, but when they saw him, they were like, hold on, this kid is not just a mon-store, he's got high hockey IQ, just has to get his feet under him and grow into that massive frame.

[StCapps]

What I mean is, when someone goes to knock a young offensive defensemen in his draft year, for needing to make the simpler decision and not try to do it all himself when he's a thoroughbred, I always respond, "Well what defensive prospects didn't have those question marks in their draft year?", to which they respond, "Uhhhhhh...... Drew Doughty?", and then I say "Yeah and who else?", and in response I get a blank look on their face, the look of them being unable to come up with another outlier to try and corroborate their irrelevant point. If that isn't a question mark of a offensive defensemen in their draft year, then buckle up he's going to be fucking amazing.

[Smitty-48]

Yeah, I know what you mean, but there are some who are more questionable than others, for example Cale Makar has always been a speed demon, but I think the reason he jumped up all the way to four, is that his decision making really started to come into its own, he was highlight reel before, but lately he's been looking more NHL pro in his overall game.

[StCapps]

Yeah, I know what you mean, but there are some who are more questionable than others, for example Cale Makar has always been a speed demon, but I think the reason he jumped up all the way to four, is that his decision making really started to come into its own, he was highlight reel before, but lately he's been looking more NHL pro in his overall game.

Yeah the kid thinks the game almost as fast as he skates, I'm pretty excited actually, in hindsight I would have taken him over Heiskanen because of the upside, swing for the fences, just because the left shot D is the better fit for the team at the moment, that doesn't mean you shouldn't take the best player available. I think the Avs would have taken Makar even if both were on the board anyway, they might have even taken him if they had the first overall pick, that's how high they were on Makar, thankfully for us he was there at four, and losing the draft lottery, not so bad after all, I can live with it and then some.

[Smitty-48]

Like, with Liljegren at the U18's, he was pulling some Jake Gardiner moves with the puck, but then skating himself out of trouble, which, that's gonna be harder to do in the NHL, but Jake Gardiner's real weakness is skating himself into trouble, without the puck, and that Liljegren is not so prone to do, without the puck, he's actually quite steady, he's not a brain cramper, he goes to the right places without the puck, and that's really the key to being a good pro.

[Smitty-48]

Yeah the kid thinks the game almost as fast as he skates, I'm pretty excited actually, in hindsight I would have taken him over Heiskanen because of the upside, swing for the fences

Yeah, exactly, Heiskanen has a bigger frame, he's more of a steady eddie, he might be closer to the league than Makar right now, but he's not a Makar in terms of being a game breaker, I like Heiskanen a lot tho, if I was Sakic I would have tried to trade for the Dallas pick and get them both, put Tyson Barrie on the table if you have to.

[StCapps]

Yeah the kid thinks the game almost as fast as he skates, I'm pretty excited actually, in hindsight I would have taken him over Heiskanen because of the upside, swing for the fences

Yeah, exactly, Heiskanen has a bigger frame, he's more of a steady eddie, he might be closer to the league than Makar right now, but he's not a Makar in terms of being a game breaker, I like Heiskanen a lot tho, if I was Sakic I would have tried to trade for the Dallas pick and get them both, put Tyson Barrie on the table if you have to.

I guess, but what's the difference between making that trade at the draft and making that trade now? You think Dallas is more emotionally invested in Heiskanen now that they drafted him or something and are less likely to make the deal now? I'm down to do that deal whenever, if Sakic and the ownership are down that would be nice. Chances that Heiskanen turns out to better than Barrie in three or four years, quite high in my mind, would be a bust if he wasn't really.