Swiss may have best immigration policy.

[JohnDonne]

What sort of gay thoughts?

Also, while masculinity is quite commercialized, femininity is even more so. Think about it. As a man, you can roll out of bed and head to work. Women spend thousands of dollars per year and countless hours using special shampoos, makeup, and clothing that men barely notice. In fact, many women dress up not for men, who are generally clueless about such matters, but so that other women do not talk shit about them. This is perfectly fine in my book, but I would caution you into thinking that contemporary masculinity is a commercial construct, while believing that femininity is a more "authentic" or un-materialistic endeavor. Anyway, if you are looking for some good makeup or clothing tips, I can relay your questions to my sister who would be happy to answer them, as she is a beautiful and well put together woman, who holds a prestigious job and is happily married. With her help, we will find the right man for you.

What sort of gay thoughts? I guess when it happens it's more like a childish crush, feeling as though it would be nice to kiss that person and being bashful. It's usually inspired by a combination of looks and charm. Happens pretty rarely for me, but I don't mind it when it does.

As for my feminine side being commercialized? No, my feminine side is a culmination of my own personal ideals of femininity, drawn from life, as well as reading literature and history, same as my masculine side.

I guess you could say the commercialized aspects of masc/fem are valid representations, just as every culture represents those two sides, as though they are fundamental forces of the universe. But I'm interested in the essential qualities of the masculine, beyond the superficial indicators. And I think commercialism profits off of the superficial indicators without teaching men the essential traits that lie beneath.

DSL has some interesting theories about this stuff as well.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider ideal masculine characteristics, and what is it about masculinity as presented in contemporary Western society that is so disheartening? Don't you think that a lot of this "commercialized masculinity and femininty" is actually biological and psychological differences between men and women? I mean, businesses cater to these genders based on market forces of what men and women want. I understand that the media projects images of the ideal man and woman, but again, this media is financially successful because this seems to be what men and women aspire to be. That is my take on the matter. Culture can be a lot of things, but isn't it fundamentally honest, regardless of what you think about it?

What sort of gay thoughts?

Also, while masculinity is quite commercialized, femininity is even more so. Think about it. As a man, you can roll out of bed and head to work. Women spend thousands of dollars per year and countless hours using special shampoos, makeup, and clothing that men barely notice. In fact, many women dress up not for men, who are generally clueless about such matters, but so that other women do not talk shit about them. This is perfectly fine in my book, but I would caution you into thinking that contemporary masculinity is a commercial construct, while believing that femininity is a more "authentic" or un-materialistic endeavor. Anyway, if you are looking for some good makeup or clothing tips, I can relay your questions to my sister who would be happy to answer them, as she is a beautiful and well put together woman, who holds a prestigious job and is happily married. With her help, we will find the right man for you.

What sort of gay thoughts? I guess when it happens it's more like a childish crush, feeling as though it would be nice to kiss that person and being bashful. It's usually inspired by a combination of looks and charm. Happens pretty rarely for me, but I don't mind it when it does.

As for my feminine side being commercialized? No, my feminine side is a culmination of my own personal ideals of femininity, drawn from life, as well as reading literature and history, same as my masculine side.

I guess you could say the commercialized aspects of masc/fem are valid representations, just as every culture represents those two sides, as though they are fundamental forces of the universe. But I'm interested in the essential qualities of the masculine, beyond the superficial indicators. And I think commercialism profits off of the superficial indicators without teaching men the essential traits that lie beneath.

DSL has some interesting theories about this stuff as well.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider ideal masculine characteristics, and what is it about masculinity as presented in contemporary Western society that is so disheartening? Don't you think that a lot of this "commercialized masculinity and femininty" is actually biological and psychological differences between men and women? I mean, businesses cater to these genders based on market forces of what men and women want. I understand that the media projects images of the ideal man and woman, but again, this media is financially successful because this seems to be what men and women aspire to be. That is my take on the matter. Culture can be a lot of things, but isn't it fundamentally honest, regardless of what you think about it?

Just off the top of my head I would say Truth, Strength, Restraint and Honor are essential masculine traits, at least in my opinion. These qualities, when manifested in someone else, or in storytelling form and images, simply compel me in a way that I instinctively recognize as being masculine and something to emulate. I would also say that I see the feminine as including the Ecstatic and Nurturing natures, among others I can't think of right now.

I definitely agree that what manifests as masculine and feminine in our culture is biologically based more than it is the invention of advertising companies. I think what culture does is heighten those biological differences in their representations according to the needs of the society. I am not saying it is something "artificial" or "dishonest" at all, nor am I really disheartened by it, but I do find the superficial images of pop culture to be inadequate examples of manhood in such a complicated world, in other words, they do not properly tell me how I should be. And I see my fellow men become confused and clueless and act dishonorably because they suffer the same problem.

I believe that our pop culture images or memes do have ideals encoded in them, at least they are part of a continuum of derived images that represent the essential traits of masculinity. But I think over time the ideals are watered down and less focused on, and the image is worshipped and emulated rather than the ideal traits they represented. So men start to think having muscles is what manhood is, even though it is only an association of the broader ideal of strength, which should permeate everything in a man, not simply his physical body.

But this is why I believe that following the ideals will lead to the desired image, and the image, if followed to its roots, will lead back to the ideals.

I haven't really written any of this down before so I hope it makes sense.

[Speaker to Animals]

Masculinity is mainly just competency. In it's rawest form, we are talking about survival and fighting. Everything else, including traits like strength, loyalty, and honor stem from competency.

Usually, when you ask people this question, all you get is their ideology. It's long been the practice of our civilization to use your manhood as a control mechanism; to shame you as not being a "real man" if you don't do this or that, or think in a certain way. When people try to formulate what masculinity means, they tend to list traits that are important to them, or help society or civilization in some way. That too is a mistake, though the general idea is close to the mark.

The only way to make sense of this is to unwind history and examine humans as the animals that we are. You can look at other species to see what male traits exist as well, which helps you extrapolate what it actually means to be human in our rawest state (before complex culture and history itself). Humans were a patrilocal species. Our social unit was essentially a gang or a clan of men. Females migrated between gangs. Gangs waged perpetual low-intensity warfare with one another. Existence was fragile. Both masculinity and femininity relate to the survival of the human tribe. Masculinity has more to do with fighting, hunting, building shelters, etc. Competency in those things is what makes a male valuable to the gang. It's competency that earns you honor amongst your peers. Femininity has more to do with keeping children alive.

It's not a huge problem for a male to adopt (really to learn) some feminine traits, but if that interferes with masculinity, then it is poison.

As civilization progresses, masculinity expresses itself in lots of different ways. Business. Art. Philosophy. Etc. However, it always relates to one's competency at some task that maintains continuity of the human social structure. The reason most of us feel a visceral disgust with men who are not masculine is that evolution has primed us to weed them out as threats to our tribe. Because they really are exactly that.

[Smitty-48]

Look good, feel good, shoot good; chicks dig it. Nuff said.

[Speaker to Animals]

And I reject the "yin-yang" conception of the masculine and feminine. It's ridiculous. Obviously masculinity is far more important than femininity. This is why, if women are to become our equals or compete with us in any meaningful way, they must adopt masculine traits. Femininity just relates to the ability attract mates and provide babies. There's no accountability or competency required there. This is why women have never really been held to same standard as men, even now about a hundred years after we gave them the right to vote, and fifty years since we made it illegal to discriminate against them in hiring practices.

I do believe women can probably compete with us in most things, especially now that strength, stamina, and pain tolerance are no longer as decisive factors in the most important tasks to a technological civilization. But I don't see many women actually wanting to do that. They want the rewards, sure, but they definitely don't want the accountability and expectation of competency.

Femininity is great. Men love it. But it's naturally subordinate to masculinity. Masculinity brings the food to the table. Masculinity fights the wars. Masculinity builds the houses. Masculinity builds civilization. Femininity simply provides the next generation. That's super important, but hardly requiring competency.

[Okeefenokee]

Masculinity is mainly just

responsibility.

[Speaker to Animals]

Masculinity is mainly just

responsibility.

Responsibility relates to competency. You cannot be held responsible for something you are not expected to be competent at performing. Furthermore, what makes some men more masculine is their increased competency at some important skill or task. Every warrior is responsible for his actions on the battlefield, but the great warrior earns honor through exceptional prowess. That goes back to competency.

Competency, daniel-son.

[Smitty-48]

No squaws needed in the combat arms. Nuff said.

[Okeefenokee]

Responsibility and competency had a fight.

Responsibility knocked competency out of sight.

Competency said, "that's alright."

"Meet me on the corner tomorrow night."

"I'll be ready tomorrow night."

[Smitty-48]

So long as you look good, feel good, shoot good, you can be reckless and get the chicks, chicks love a bad boy, lots of responsible dudes getting left at the curb, cause they're boring, chicks like danger, it gets them hot n' bothered.

[Okeefenokee]

Responsibility without competency, respectable but tragic.

Competency without responsibility, profitable but without honor.

Easy choice.

Responsibility first.