Common Sense 322 - Betting on Long Shots

[Smitty-48]

if you want to look at the most relevant Mongol legacy which concerns us now, it's Russia

the Mongols didn't build an empire, the Russians built the empire

by adopting Christianity from Byzantium, and then using that to defeat the Mongol hordes

this why they will nuke you over Crimea if they are backs against the wall

it's their homeland, the Christian Rus took it from the Mongoloid Tatars and it became the cornerstone of the Russian empire

[C-Mag]

I don't seek a quarrel with you

I am simply passing on my analysis

an empire is something specific, it was invented by the Greco-Romans, and it is by nature a sea power

the Golden Horde was a big bunch of Mongoloids on the Steppe, but it never amounted to an empire

in the same way the Taliban don't pose a threat to American power, all imperial power flows from Freedom of Navigation on the seas

We're good brother, no offense here.

I'm struggling to convey my thoughts and feelings on this. You are right in the standard measurements of Empire, My argument that Greatness and Empire can be something more is probably impossible to make.

The question is, how great a power are the barbarians that topple empires ?
I don't think we can just dismiss them out of hand.

[C-Mag]

if you want to look at the most relevant Mongol legacy which concerns us now, it's Russia

the Mongols didn't build an empire, the Russians built the empire

by adopting Christianity from Byzantium, and then using that to defeat the Mongol hordes

this why they will nuke you over Crimea if they are backs against the wall

it's their homeland, the Christian Rus took it from the Mongoloid Tatars and it became the cornerstone of the Russian empire

I would argue there is a greater Slavic Empire just sitting there unrecognized by the world.


The future is Slavic

[DBTrek]

No one has ever claimed the Mongols built an Empire.
The claim has always been they controlled the largest land empire.
Beating the strawman of "built" a thousand more times serves no purpose, other than fluffing more chaff into the air.

[Smitty-48]

I would argue there is a greater Slavic Empire just sitting there unrecognized by the world.
The future is Slavic

the relevant analysis to us now is that the Chinese and Russians are actually enemies not allies

the Russians took most of that land from China

China wants it back

the Chinese are not using military force however

they are using financial & economic power, and Chinese immigrants flowing into Siberia

[C-Mag]

WANTED FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY

[C-Mag]

I would argue there is a greater Slavic Empire just sitting there unrecognized by the world.
The future is Slavic

the relevant analysis to us now is that the Chinese and Russians are actually enemies not allies

the Russians took most of that land from China

China wants it back

the Chinese are not using military force however

they are using financial & economic power, and Chinese immigrants flowing into Siberia

The Chinese have never been able to export military power. I don't see that changing.

However, they are great at bribing, stealing technology and ruling peasants with an iron fist.
They even tried to bribe the Mongols. So, they should stick to what they are good at.

[Smitty-48]

the problem the Russians have is the same problem they always had

the 19th century American naval officer Alfred Thayer Mahan postulated the theory of the Eternal Seapower encircling Eurasia

there's no such thing as a land empire, empires are by the sea

this is why the Soviets stopped funding the army and switched to building a massive navy in the 1960's

but they just couldn't break out, America ruled the waves, the Soviets could not break the world wide blockade

it's like what really brought the Czar down ?

he sailed his battle fleet from the Baltic around the world to confront Japan, and the Japanese sunk the Russian fleet in a day

after the Russo-Japanese War, the Russians were exposed as being a paper tiger at sea

[SuburbanFarmer]

An entire population of warriors, with Spartan values and advanced tactics, that conquered most of the known world aren’t revered by retired military guy because they didn’t build stuff. Ironic.

Militarily, they’re a fascinating study in asymmetrical warfare. Socially, they’re an amazing example of a fully mobilized nation. The what-ifs involving them are incredible.

I mean, they’re even a good study for what happens if the American Indian could have done to whites without our gunpowder. Absolutely unbeatable.

They only stopped conquering because their leader died, and they had to go elect a new one. It’s a small miracle that we aren’t all speaking Mongolian, a thousand years later.

[DBTrek]

there's no such thing as a land empire, empires are by the sea

The definition of empire disagrees.
I take your point, but when your position relies on attributing new definitions to commonly used and understood words I'm not sure where things go from there.