Roots

[apeman]

Look at the third world, as we know it from this century. When has there ever been a massive chunk of humanity (currently 40-50%) living in destitution and squalor? This is a new creation.

What evidence would serve you?

Proof that fewer percent of the population live in absolute poverty than ever before? Maybe astonishingly decreasing infant and child mortality rates? Maybe the average hours/worked per item of food bought? What would do it?

There have likely been times when 40-50% of people were fucking slaves, man.[/quote]

Notice there will be no response to these facts.

The overwhelming trend has been better health, less starvation, less dying infants, less poverty, less slavery.

System ain't perfect by no means, we can talk about destruction of culture/purpose/meaning, alienation of labor, etc, but the quotes above ^ are what we are talking about, and there will be no adequate rebuttal coming.

[Hwen Hoshino]

Child labor and Boss Tweed. Keep swinging.

You can say that western civilization has been superior for, say, the last century or so, but that's only if you choose to ignore the creation of the third world, and the threat of nuclear annihilation.

Wicked stuff was done, Nukes also lead to unprecedented peace. I don't see despite all those things that it was not a better place to live. What makes you think given the oppurtunity other civilizations would not have pursued colonization?

I'm not proposing that there was some kind of utopian society before that, but they were not poverty-stricken wastelands. Those were little empires and tribes of proud people. Human dignity was the norm, not desolation. And you know very well that the landscape was mostly intact, not slashed and burned for cash crops.

Human dignity is not the norm in Empires. The in idependent country Ethiopia, the country that did not get colonized had slavery long after the US outlawed it. Where do you get this magical innocent black people stuff?

Quit strawmanning. As I said before, there was slavery in every civilization and area, at some point, except possibly the Inuit or something. I'm not talking about individual sovreignty, so much as societal. Previous to the 20th, any nation that fell to the level of "third-world" would simply have been absorbed/conquered by the nearest empire. If not, they'd simply migrate into one.

Look at the third world, as we know it from this century. When has there ever been a massive chunk of humanity (currently 40-50%) living in destitution and squalor? This is a new creation.

Okay, how does that fact relate to you disputing the clam that Western civ is the best?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Look at the third world, as we know it from this century. When has there ever been a massive chunk of humanity (currently 40-50%) living in destitution and squalor? This is a new creation.

What evidence would serve you?

Proof that fewer percent of the population live in absolute poverty than ever before? Maybe astonishingly decreasing infant and child mortality rates? Maybe the average hours/worked per item of food bought? What would do it?

There have likely been times when 40-50% of people were fucking slaves, man.

Notice there will be no response to these facts.

The overwhelming trend has been better health, less starvation, less dying infants, less poverty, less slavery.

System ain't perfect by no means, we can talk about destruction of culture/purpose/meaning, alienation of labor, etc, but the quotes above ^ are what we are talking about, and there will be no adequate rebuttal coming.

I gave one. Read it again.

Yes, things are unarguably better in many areas, across the globe. However, this is like looking at Detroit and saying "they're fine, they have cellphones and stuff". The rest of the world has left huge chunks of it - almost half - far behind. This has not happened before in history.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Wicked stuff was done, Nukes also lead to unprecedented peace. I don't see despite all those things that it was not a better place to live. What makes you think given the oppurtunity other civilizations would not have pursued colonization?



Human dignity is not the norm in Empires. The in idependent country Ethiopia, the country that did not get colonized had slavery long after the US outlawed it. Where do you get this magical innocent black people stuff?

Quit strawmanning. As I said before, there was slavery in every civilization and area, at some point, except possibly the Inuit or something. I'm not talking about individual sovreignty, so much as societal. Previous to the 20th, any nation that fell to the level of "third-world" would simply have been absorbed/conquered by the nearest empire. If not, they'd simply migrate into one.

Look at the third world, as we know it from this century. When has there ever been a massive chunk of humanity (currently 40-50%) living in destitution and squalor? This is a new creation.

Okay, how does that fact relate to you disputing the clam that Western civ is the best?

I'm not sure that I can dispute that, in relation to others currently available, but I think that the margin is far, far smaller than people here seem to think. I'm just throwing shade on the blinding devotion to "our way", and trying to balance it out.

Along the way, I came up with an idea that the 'third-world' is entirely a new concept, and decided to toss it out there. So far, the reaction has been vehement, but I imagine a few lurkers are taking the time to think it over.

[apeman]

The assertion:

has there ever been a massive chunk of humanity (currently 40-50%) living in destitution and squalor

I state that undisputed and astonishing progress in multiple core concerns, most notably extreme poverty. Curiously, I need not post any actual numbers, because we all know its true and it has been covered ad nauseum.

Yes, things are unarguably better in many areas, across the globe. However, this is like looking at Detroit and saying "they're fine, they have cellphones and stuff". The rest of the world has left huge chunks of it - almost half - far behind. This has not happened before in history.

So GCF points to Detroit, a shit place to live, where your odds of starvation, infant mortality, Kings men raping your lady and bandits burning down your house still at historical lows.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The assertion:

has there ever been a massive chunk of humanity (currently 40-50%) living in destitution and squalor

I state that undisputed and astonishing progress in multiple core concerns, most notably extreme poverty. Curiously, I need not post any actual numbers, because we all know its true and it has been covered ad nauseum.

Yes, things are unarguably better in many areas, across the globe. However, this is like looking at Detroit and saying "they're fine, they have cellphones and stuff". The rest of the world has left huge chunks of it - almost half - far behind. This has not happened before in history.

So GCF points to Detroit, a shit place to live, where your odds of starvation, infant mortality, Kings men raping your lady and bandits burning down your house still at historical lows.

Real estate's cheap there. You should invest, homie.

[apeman]

The assertion:

has there ever been a massive chunk of humanity (currently 40-50%) living in destitution and squalor

I state that undisputed and astonishing progress in multiple core concerns, most notably extreme poverty. Curiously, I need not post any actual numbers, because we all know its true and it has been covered ad nauseum.

Yes, things are unarguably better in many areas, across the globe. However, this is like looking at Detroit and saying "they're fine, they have cellphones and stuff". The rest of the world has left huge chunks of it - almost half - far behind. This has not happened before in history.

So GCF points to Detroit, a shit place to live, where your odds of starvation, infant mortality, Kings men raping your lady and bandits burning down your house still at historical lows.

Real estate's cheap there. You should invest, homie.

/debate

I wonder how much worse the risk/return profile is versus buying in OH?

Maybe I can be your landlord.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The assertion:



I state that undisputed and astonishing progress in multiple core concerns, most notably extreme poverty. Curiously, I need not post any actual numbers, because we all know its true and it has been covered ad nauseum.



So GCF points to Detroit, a shit place to live, where your odds of starvation, infant mortality, Kings men raping your lady and bandits burning down your house still at historical lows.

Real estate's cheap there. You should invest, homie.

/debate

I wonder how much worse the risk/return profile is versus buying in OH?

Maybe I can be your landlord.

Depends on which part. Rural housing in general is reaching 2007 levels, according to my frequent Zillow searches.

You won't catch me renting again, now that I'm off the plantation. You may be fortunate enough to become my neighbor though.

[apeman]

Oh congrats I thought you were renting

and I shouldnt even make these jokes, I was living in a trailer until last june ...

[Okeefenokee]

You fellas are going to give yourselves high blood pressure problems.

I actually think it's the reverse. Since we're not allowed to beat our wives anymore, we come here to batter each other instead.

Keeps us balanced and saves a lot of money in attorney fees. Guess it's not too good for the lawyers, though.