Socialism

[heydaralon]

No, it's not. It's stupid at best, venal in the middle, and viscous at it's worst. It says "I don't give a fuck about the world I leave behind me as long as I get to do exactly what I want". Same as a suicide bomber.

Climate denial is the same as 'cigarettes cause cancer' deniers, in many cases it's the exact same people.

What are you doing about it? Are you consuming less? Hell no. Lol, you said you own multiple fucking properties. Why not tear them down and return the land to the Earth? Once they are occupied by tennants, they will use electricity from the grid and cause more gases to be emitted. Are you having less children? Again, the answer is no. Are you wasting electricity and creating greenhouse gases by posting on this frivolous forum? Yes. You are not even willing to go without this forum or youtube. You waste electricity on fucking Spartacus and Netflix. You probably drive when you could walk, you want the best life possible for you and I'm sure you want your kids to live even better than you did. So again, how is "not caring about the environment" more moral than "caring about the environment but doing absolutely jack shit in actually changing your behavior?" Seriously, explain to all of us the steps you take in reducing population or eliminating growth based economy. I'll bet your carbon footprint is bigger than mine. How many cars do you own? Do you share a car with your wife? Do you carpool to work? Do you ever consider that going to Wal Mart for toilet paper is more environmentally destructive than taking a shit in your yard and wiping your ass with a handful of grass?

This is why environmentalism is such a joke. You don't do a fucking thing different than some random buster on the street who drives a diesel truck and works in an oil refinery, but you act like you are on some moral high ground over him because he hasn't seen An Inconvenient Truth. You implore scientists to invent some magic wand that will change the laws of thermodynamics, but you probably run your A/C when the outside temp gets above 70 degrees. You use every plastic product that is available, just like everyone else, and you eat shit that is flown or sailed across the world just like everyone else because you can't be bothered to garden.

If you have children, then you are not an environmentalist.

What have I said that isn't true?

You are the one in denial my friend.

I know you're just trolling me, but this asinine 'all or nothing' bullshit is really dangerous. Both extremes subscribe to it. The notion that 'you can't be a true environmentalist if you don't kill your kids, raze your house and then kill yourself, so you might as well buy a Hummer and live in a McMansion 20 miles from the nearest place to buy groceries' is simply an excuse to not think at all about what you're doing.

I never asked you to do any of those things at all. Don't straw man me. I don't think you are a bad person (just hyprocritical on this one issue that neither of us can do anything about). I have nothing against you or your family, and I hope that your children do live a better life than you.

Our economy is based on growth. You are plugged into this system same as I am. You want the fruits of these economic benefits the same as everyone does. But the growth is what is causing all the deforestation, reef bleaching, water table pollution, carbon etc. The only way for the economy to grow is for either:

A) More people to come into existence and buy the same amount of goods and services
OR
B) the existing amount of people in existence buy more of the existing goods and services

Those are your options. A or B. You cannot do anything economically viable without having an effect on the environment. Anything you sell is manufactured from resources that take from the environment, and any service provided releases carbon and also takes a toll. This is reality. Its not even a capitalism problem either, because the former Communist countries had environmental pollution that well exceeded our own. Their economies were based on growth as well. Five Year Plans replaced Quarterly corporate targets. It doesn't matter what system you have economically, if your economy is based on growth, which all are.

You want gas to be $20 per gallon or whatever. You want BP to be destroyed. How far are you willing to take your environmentalism? Obviously you aren't going to kill your family, but would you be willing to demolish your property? Stop buying products made with petroleum period? Not use electricity anymore? Not have anymore kids? Not drive anymore? You want poor people to go bankrupt paying fuel costs, when you are just as guilty as anyone is for "climate change" etc. Whatever environmental solution that we come up with will be meaningless, because oil is used in everything. Everything. Your lifestyle is more decadent than Kings of centuries before. Everyone's is. Yet we wring our hands and pretend like we are not all complicit.

I'm not even worried about global warming. I don't trust the scientists or particularly care about what they say, because they are living identical greedy consumption based lives same as me, and they have repeatedly cried wolf. Whatever happens, happens. Just be aware that you are just as guilty as anyone else, regardless of what you think is happening to our planet.

[Smitty-48]

By the way, turns out the convenience store is only 72 yards away.

And I drove a pick up truck. And left it idling while I was in the store.

[heydaralon]

Unless I'm walking my dogs, I drive everywhere.

I just drove to the convenience store.

It's a hundred yards away.

Good. I do too. I run my A/C on full blast too. Environmentalist are hypocritical lowlifes who fly private jets to climate change events.

[SuburbanFarmer]

We only require infinite growth due to over-leveraging. Otherwise, the system would be quite stable.

If more people come into existence, they won’t have any new work to do. If existing people use more, they produce more waste.

The Malthusian trap is created by thinking that things just get bigger forever, and banking everyone’s future on it.

The pie Is finite.

[Smitty-48]

Stop recycling too, it's a scam, just chuck everything in the garbage.

[Speaker to Animals]

Yeah, I stopped recycling too after the vegan thread recently. It convinced me to toss everything out in the same bag.

[heydaralon]

I know you're just trolling me, but this asinine 'all or nothing' bullshit is really dangerous. Both extremes subscribe to it. The notion that 'you can't be a true environmentalist if you don't kill your kids, raze your house and then kill yourself, so you might as well buy a Hummer and live in a McMansion 20 miles from the nearest place to buy groceries' is simply an excuse to not think at all about what you're doing.

What are you doing though, to mitigate global warming?

I've raised my family in a 1200 sq ft apartment in an attached apartment building in a neighborhood with a 96 of 100 Walkscore. You know Walkscore? That means being able to live without driving everywhere. My wife walks to work, daughter walks to school, I work at home. I can easily go a week without driving. I'm no 'enviro-saint', but neither am I oblivious or downright hostile to the environment.

You?

lol thats so leftist. Using some retarded corporate (from a corporation that consumes endless resources and uses endless power) to justify your own destruction of the environment. You could get a 110 on the Walk for AIDS score and it doesn't change the fact that you are bad for the environment same as everyone else. Certainly worse than me. You have children. They are eating meat, eating vegetables, using electricity that was stolen from the Gaia. You have a bigger global footprint than I do. Period. I'm no environmental Bolshie, but you cannot claim the moral highground here. I could say that dumping gasoline into the aquafer cures cancer, and still be more green than you. I'm sure your kids won't move away to college which will consume gasoline and more resources and I'm sure they won't move far away to work and commute which will burn more. I'm positive that they will have no ideas about starting their own families and repeating the process destroying even more environment. Stop living in denial Brewster. You are a blight upon this Earth.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Not me. I need the capacity of 2 cans, or it piles up.

[Smitty-48]

Just give your empty beer cans to the homeless down at the local church, they turn them in for refunds.

[Speaker to Animals]

I don't want them coming around here in this neighborhood. It all goes into the dumpster. I pass the recycle dumper by.