Explain what exactly it is you are demanding here. Because all I am seeing are a group of total asshats demanding the pandemic go away so they can "get back to work" in the most retarded astroturf movement I ever saw in my life (and probably ever, honestly).
You say landlords and banks need to be paid. What do you want here? People just go back to work in business as usual to pay debts? Because that's just going to get a lot of people killed and you are going to end up with a worse economy than had we tried something even ten percent more intelligent.
To add to that, please answer this question: what in the holy fuck do you think changed that warrants us to "go back to work"?? We still have not seen a significant percentage of the population infected. We don't even know if we get immunity from recovery. We don't have drug treatments to stop the death and permanent disability.
If we go back to work and you get two million fatalities with probably at least ten times that number on permanent disability, what exactly do you think is going to happen to our economy? Had you considered that when you opined about the plight of landlords and banks?
What I'm saying is that not paying rent and mortgage will still get people kicked out of their homes no matter how badly you want them to stay home and not work. I do not care about banks getting paid and landlords getting paid. What will happen to those people who are out of work because of the pandemic will be that they are forcibly removed from their homes. What is your grand plan to stop that from happening? The social structures are still in place as of right now to enforce the payment of debts. Families will be on the receiving end of eviction. What is your plan to protect the people who can't pay their mortgages and rent because the pandemic has them out of a job?
Right now your plan appears to be, "Screw 'em."
I get it. We don't know much about the virus and how it operates, and opening the economy back up will probably exacerbate the pandemic, undoing any "flattening the curve" that happened. But that still doesn't answer the question of, "If people are laid off due to the pandemic and aren't able to pay their mortgages and rents, what happens if they can't pay their mortgage, rent, and utilities?" Every time I ask that question, you reply with hysterical screeching and misrepresentation of the question I am asking you.
You are talking as if we can't end evictions and put a halt to mortgage and rent payments until we sort this out. Are you serious right now? You are still operating in a 2019 paradigm. News flash: the world just got fucked in the ass by the worst pandemic since the middle ages.
We can put a moratorium on rent and mortgages. Bankers and landlords are not going to die. This is hardly an argument for sending millions to their deaths.
For clarification's sake, this is what you appear to be saying:
We can put a moratorium on rent and mortgages indefinitely until we learn more about the virus and develop a vaccine or effective treatment.
Xenophon wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:58 am
What I'm saying is that not paying rent and mortgage will still get people kicked out of their homes no matter how badly you want them to stay home and not work. I do not care about banks getting paid and landlords getting paid. What will happen to those people who are out of work because of the pandemic will be that they are forcibly removed from their homes. What is your grand plan to stop that from happening? The social structures are still in place as of right now to enforce the payment of debts. Families will be on the receiving end of eviction. What is your plan to protect the people who can't pay their mortgages and rent because the pandemic has them out of a job?
Right now your plan appears to be, "Screw 'em."
I get it. We don't know much about the virus and how it operates, and opening the economy back up will probably exacerbate the pandemic, undoing any "flattening the curve" that happened. But that still doesn't answer the question of, "If people are laid off due to the pandemic and aren't able to pay their mortgages and rents, what happens if they can't pay their mortgage, rent, and utilities?" Every time I ask that question, you reply with hysterical screeching and misrepresentation of the question I am asking you.
You are talking as if we can't end evictions and put a halt to mortgage and rent payments until we sort this out. Are you serious right now? You are still operating in a 2019 paradigm. News flash: the world just got fucked in the ass by the worst pandemic since the middle ages.
We can put a moratorium on rent and mortgages. Bankers and landlords are not going to die. This is hardly an argument for sending millions to their deaths.
For clarification's sake, this is what you appear to be saying:
We can put a moratorium on rent and mortgages indefinitely until we learn more about the virus and develop a vaccine or effective treatment.
Is that correct?
We can put a moratorium on rent and mortgages until we can figure out how rebuild the economy, which right now depends on a lot of research into this disease and the virus that causes it. We may have to completely reorganize how we do literally anything. If there is no vaccine possible, and this thing is with us for the long haul, then the economy as you knew it is not possible. Or.. maybe some genius develops a vaccine in a few months and within a year we start to rapidly move towards herd immunity. Or.. maybe recovering really does confer immunity for most people, and we can very slowly creep our way towards herd immunity, issue immunity certificates and transition people safely back into the economy.
There are too many unknowns to be worrying about landlords right now. Get a grip, man. Figuring out how to handle rent and mortgages is not some critical problem right now. We don't even really know how exactly this virus is killing people. We have so much to figure out first. Demanding we do all this late-stage shit when we still have not figured out the basics is childish.
You are talking as if we can't end evictions and put a halt to mortgage and rent payments until we sort this out. Are you serious right now? You are still operating in a 2019 paradigm. News flash: the world just got fucked in the ass by the worst pandemic since the middle ages.
We can put a moratorium on rent and mortgages. Bankers and landlords are not going to die. This is hardly an argument for sending millions to their deaths.
For clarification's sake, this is what you appear to be saying:
We can put a moratorium on rent and mortgages indefinitely until we learn more about the virus and develop a vaccine or effective treatment.
Is that correct?
We can put a moratorium on rent and mortgages until we can figure out how rebuild the economy, which right now depends on a lot of research into this disease and the virus that causes it. We may have to completely reorganize how we do literally anything. If there is no vaccine possible, and this thing is with us for the long haul, then the economy as you knew it is not possible. Or.. maybe some genius develops a vaccine in a few months and within a year we start to rapidly move towards herd immunity. Or.. maybe recovering really does confer immunity for most people, and we can very slowly creep our way towards herd immunity, issue immunity certificates and transition people safely back into the economy.
There are too many unknowns to be worrying about landlords right now. Get a grip, man. Figuring out how to handle rent and mortgages is not some critical problem right now. We don't even really know how exactly this virus is killing people. We have so much to figure out first.
The thing is, just because you say that it's not a critical problem doesn't mean that the families effected are somehow shielded from eviction or foreclosure in the present moment. There are no safeguards in place to prevent that from happening nationwide. I understand that you're advocating for those sorts of safeguards, but that doesn't look like what is actually going to happen.
No where in our exchange have I acted unreasonably. You're acting like I'm frothing at the mouth with rage. I've got a newborn on the way, and I sure as hell don't want to make this pandemic any worse. I've been sheltering in place way before our Governor instituted a statewide shelter in-place order, and my family is prepared to weather the long haul. If staying inside for the next few years is required, I'm set. I am not champing at the bit to run around in public.
In the year of our lord two thousand and twenty, a pandemic did sweep across the world threatening the second iteration of western civilization. Because none could discover a solution to the problem of how to pay landlords, nothing could be done but to send people back to work, further propagating the pandemic until civilization collapsed.
It's INSANE. Have you really stepped back and listened to yourself?
Speaker to Animals wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:14 amIn the year of our lord two thousand and twenty, a pandemic did sweep across the world threatening the second iteration of western civilization. Because none could discover a solution to the problem of how to pay landlords, nothing could be done but to send people back to work, further propagating the pandemic until civilization collapsed.
It's INSANE. Have you really stepped back and listened to yourself?
Speaker to Animals wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:14 amIn the year of our lord two thousand and twenty, a pandemic did sweep across the world threatening the second iteration of western civilization. Because none could discover a solution to the problem of how to pay landlords, nothing could be done but to send people back to work, further propagating the pandemic until civilization collapsed.
It's INSANE. Have you really stepped back and listened to yourself?
I feel like you're arguing with someone else.
No, I am arguing with a guy who thinks we just have to ignore the pandemic and "get back to work" because the problem of landlords not getting paid is intractable. LOL
Speaker to Animals wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:14 amIn the year of our lord two thousand and twenty, a pandemic did sweep across the world threatening the second iteration of western civilization. Because none could discover a solution to the problem of how to pay landlords, nothing could be done but to send people back to work, further propagating the pandemic until civilization collapsed.
It's INSANE. Have you really stepped back and listened to yourself?
I feel like you're arguing with someone else.
No, I am arguing with a guy who thinks we just have to ignore the pandemic and "get back to work" because the problem of landlords not getting paid is intractable. LOL
There is a phenomenon in aviation safety whereby in a fire or crash on the ground, enough passengers will be unable to accept the reality of the accident that they cause more fatalities than would otherwise have occurred. They will literally stand up and grab the luggage in the overhead compartments, like they are normally exiting the aircraft, because they cannot cognitively accept that the plane is on fire and the paradigm changed.
People who are perplexed as to how we are supposed to pay bills and whatnot are like those passengers who stand up in the middle of the aisle and proceed to remove their luggage from the overhead compartment while the plane is on fire, and creating a bottleneck for the rest of the passengers to get funneled into and possibly die.
That's not to say that mortgages and rent are not important issues, but that demanding people just go back to work during an incredibly deadly pandemic because otherwise the landlords won't get paid is a product of these people not grasping how much shit has changed and how dire our circumstances are right now. We can figure out the landlord problem. They don't need to be paid right now. Banks don't need to be paid right now. Landlords and bankers are not going to die if they are not paid. It's okay. LOL
Here is an example of what is going wrong in your head right now:
Do you see the people towards then end exiting with their luggage? 41 people died in that fire.
why are landlords the only people that need to get paid? what of the multitude of businesses that are suffering during the shutdown from having no income? how many federal gibs do they get? its not like landlords are the only people that receive their money
pineapplemike wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:32 am
why are landlords the only people that need to get paid? what of the multitude of businesses that are suffering during the shutdown from having no income? how many federal gibs do they get? its not like landlords are the only people that receive their money
In the new economy, the money fairies will provide for their livelihood and that of their employees. In the meantime, they just need to accept the fact that the paradigm is changing, and starve in peace. That, or they can eat their other household members.
Imagine thinking that you still need to provide for your family during a pandemic. LOL
