Is anyone sick of all the winning?

[Montegriffo]

As far as the three sisters not being sustainable.. uh.. yeah.. it is. Mayans are still doing it today.

They only plant on a field for two to three seasons and then leave it fallow to restore the soil. Further, the combination of plants helps to retard the depletion of the soil.

The three crops benefit from each other. The maize provides a structure for the beans to climb, eliminating the need for poles. The beans provide the nitrogen to the soil that the other plants use, and the squash spreads along the ground, blocking the sunlight, helping prevent the establishment of weeds. The squash leaves also act as a "living mulch", creating a microclimate to retain moisture in the soil, and the prickly hairs of the vine deter pests. Corn, beans, and squash contain complex carbohydrates, essential fatty acids and all eight essential amino acids, allowing most Native American tribes to thrive on a plant-based diet.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Sis ... riculture)

If I am not mistaken, they also buried fish beneath the maize seeds to act as fertilizer.


The thing that got them in the classical collapse was population growth coupled with slash and burn tactics to create new fields, followed by a drought.



Not that any of that has anything to do with the point that it's entirely possible for Americans to easily deal with food disruptions.

Link doesn't seem to work.

[Speaker to Animals]

As far as the three sisters not being sustainable.. uh.. yeah.. it is. Mayans are still doing it today.

They only plant on a field for two to three seasons and then leave it fallow to restore the soil. Further, the combination of plants helps to retard the depletion of the soil.

The three crops benefit from each other. The maize provides a structure for the beans to climb, eliminating the need for poles. The beans provide the nitrogen to the soil that the other plants use, and the squash spreads along the ground, blocking the sunlight, helping prevent the establishment of weeds. The squash leaves also act as a "living mulch", creating a microclimate to retain moisture in the soil, and the prickly hairs of the vine deter pests. Corn, beans, and squash contain complex carbohydrates, essential fatty acids and all eight essential amino acids, allowing most Native American tribes to thrive on a plant-based diet.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Sis ... riculture)

If I am not mistaken, they also buried fish beneath the maize seeds to act as fertilizer.


The thing that got them in the classical collapse was population growth coupled with slash and burn tactics to create new fields, followed by a drought.



Not that any of that has anything to do with the point that it's entirely possible for Americans to easily deal with food disruptions.

Link doesn't seem to work.

Code: Select all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Sisters_(agriculture)

Just copy and paste the text. For some reason the phpbb script doesn't like parentheses in url text.

[Montegriffo]

Yep I did that, closing bracket not included in your link.
Interesting read.

[Speaker to Animals]

Yep I did that, closing bracket not included in your link.
Interesting read.

Here's the system I was referring to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milpa

That would work as an emergency measure for small communities to produce enough food for a few years. The Mesoamericans figured out how to grow crops that complimented one another to reduce problems with the soil and also to complete the nutritional diet that humans need. An archaeologist in one of my audio lectures said that Mayans and Aztecs lived on the healthiest diet in history.

Basically, the crops would work together to keep the soil from depleting fast. They would then leave the field fallow after a few seasons and I suppose begin to rebuild it with fertilizer (likely compost or night soil, not sure).

The milpa system is a communitarian system in which everybody works together.


Their solution to the soil problem was to use a combination of crops at once that reduced depletion whereas our solution was crop rotation. Our's is better longterm and we obvious could produce far more food than they could by the middle ages period in Europe compared to their classical period (about the same time).


Another solution would be based on the Incan system of using terraces coupled with crops like different kinds of potatoes, tomatoes, etc.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/f ... -70263217/

Something like that would work in a mountain environment quite well.

Their mit'a system of labor taxation would help get people in a small community working on communal fields while providing each family with their own personal fields.

Lolbergs would have a seizure, but fuck those guys.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

As far as the three sisters not being sustainable.. uh.. yeah.. it is. Mayans are still doing it today.

They only plant on a field for two to three seasons and then leave it fallow to restore the soil. Further, the combination of plants helps to retard the depletion of the soil.

The three crops benefit from each other. The maize provides a structure for the beans to climb, eliminating the need for poles. The beans provide the nitrogen to the soil that the other plants use, and the squash spreads along the ground, blocking the sunlight, helping prevent the establishment of weeds. The squash leaves also act as a "living mulch", creating a microclimate to retain moisture in the soil, and the prickly hairs of the vine deter pests. Corn, beans, and squash contain complex carbohydrates, essential fatty acids and all eight essential amino acids, allowing most Native American tribes to thrive on a plant-based diet.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Sis ... riculture)

If I am not mistaken, they also buried fish beneath the maize seeds to act as fertilizer.


The thing that got them in the classical collapse was population growth coupled with slash and burn tactics to create new fields, followed by a drought.



Not that any of that has anything to do with the point that it's entirely possible for Americans to easily deal with food disruptions. It isn't about who's agricultural technology is superior. Obviously we have superior agriculture, but it's not as effective on a very small scale as you would need in the few years following a collapse before order is restored.

Mezzo and South American Indians had a grasp on horticulture that eluded most North American Indians. The Mound Peoples seem to have had it going on, and that's part of the reason we still have evidence of their existence in the form monumental structures today. But, to the point, small scale subsistence farming in suburbia after SHTF collapse? No. You'd need a strong community watch to deal with the millions spilling out of the cities, and that's assuming everyone in your community's dedicated their yard to horticulture in the first place.
Tiny towns and villages--sure--places where people may already have a couple of hens, some fruit trees, productive gardens and a passion for jam and pickles--they shouldn't have much of a problem at all. Much of North America today would hardly notice a catastrophic food collapse. If you lived in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, you could simply blow the Mackinac Bridge and shout, "Good luck with your famine!" from the opposite shore and go on stuffing your face with Cornish Pasties and congratulating yourself on your Finnish ancestry.
Practicing for the apocalypse may be fun and even useful, but hunger makes for funny neighbors.

[The Conservative]

Umm, you realize the Chicago is a DNC stronghold? Can't blame the Republicans on that one at all.

...and you think the problem there is "Democrats"? You honestly believe that GOP politicians possess some superior moral fiber that would prevent that shitshow from happening?

You tell me: https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/illinois

Democrat
3,090,729 - 55.2%

Republican
2,146,015 - 38.4%

Seems to me that the Democrats control Illinois overall, oh, and BTW, the majority of Illinois was Republican, the places where the city is becoming a cesspool is Democrat Strongholds.

So yeah, the Republicans have moral superiority, especially since the majority of the state was screwed by the minority of the state.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Umm, you realize the Chicago is a DNC stronghold? Can't blame the Republicans on that one at all.

...and you think the problem there is "Democrats"? You honestly believe that GOP politicians possess some superior moral fiber that would prevent that shitshow from happening?

You tell me: https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/illinois

Democrat
3,090,729 - 55.2%

Republican
2,146,015 - 38.4%

Seems to me that the Democrats control Illinois overall, oh, and BTW, the majority of Illinois was Republican, the places where the city is becoming a cesspool is Democrat Strongholds.

So yeah, the Republicans have moral superiority, especially since the majority of the state was screwed by the minority of the state.

Guess it makes sense, if you don't think about it.

[clubgop]

...and you think the problem there is "Democrats"? You honestly believe that GOP politicians possess some superior moral fiber that would prevent that shitshow from happening?

You tell me: https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/illinois

Democrat
3,090,729 - 55.2%

Republican
2,146,015 - 38.4%

Seems to me that the Democrats control Illinois overall, oh, and BTW, the majority of Illinois was Republican, the places where the city is becoming a cesspool is Democrat Strongholds.

So yeah, the Republicans have moral superiority, especially since the majority of the state was screwed by the minority of the state.

Guess it makes sense, if you don't think about it.

Or just lie and lack all morality and ethics like you.

[Okeefenokee]

Your society's percentage of StAs is significantly lower than ours. That alone gives me unlimited optimism for a 3+ party system.

We have idiotic nanny staters to fill in, like I said, not some giant improvement. Besides more parties is not going to lead to less StA's in America, you just don't like Trailer Park Parliament brand of stupid more than you hate the nanny state liberal bullshit, and you are lashing out ineffectively if you think more political parties will neuter the influence on the brand of stupid that you least prefer on the political process.

Valid point. I do prefer Nanny-State-Stupid, because it can (usually) be reasoned with, or ignored. Also, I get a little kick out of blowing smoke in their faces.

Who the hell do you think believes you are not a colossal nanny stater?

[Okeefenokee]

Mass starvation would probably be the best thing that could ever happen to the current US

That's my point, though. I don't think we'd even see it unless the entire world collapsed and something kept people from farming over the course of 1-2 years.

I used to think the progressives would last maybe a month before dying off, but it's just not true. The average American can go a really long time without food. Think about how many people are technically in the obese category. Those guys could last a year without food and be working just fine. The fat people could easily walk far away from the cities without food. The only thing that limits them is water. That's your only danger. You'd have to figure out how to close the borders of your smaller towns and communities from these people, because they will travel like locusts across the countryside.

People will naturally organize into communities and start utilizing land to grow food too. My mother and step-father have a small hobby farm in Florida now. My step-dad regularly takes the seeds from fruit he buys at the store and plants them to grow stuff like papaya. Not every produce you see at the grocery store comes from Monsanto GMO seeds.

Every corner of North America can support people just by using the three sisters method used by Mesoamericans and our Indians. You plant corn as the main crop. Squash grows at the base of the corn stalk and keeps the soil intact and the corn roots protected. Beans grow up along the stalk. Every little corner of land that now has grass growing on it or landscaping can be converted to do this. And people will do it.

It's only in the cities that I think shit would become a problem because nobody outside the cities will want those people (or allow them into their communities), and there are too many degenerates and violent criminals inside the city to make it work.

That's fucking genius. I'm doing it next year in my garden.

It's permaculture 101.