The Religion Discussion Thread

[MilSpecs]

To the last bit: I will repeat a call for reasoning for your assertion that religion is not a reality based system. Remember that to us, it is reality. There are arguments, which do you like?

Foremost that the deity based religions (the majority in the western world) have deities that simply have no proof of existence. The concept of a deity itself has no proof - I'm not picking on any particular God. No one has ever seen, recorded, or in any way shown evidence of a deity. Someone clearly made them up. Maybe for a very good reason, but fiction nonetheless.

[TheReal_ND]

Well, since we were 'in the final days' around 2,000 years ago, and ever since, one begins to wonder how long you'll wait for that ship to come in..

I'll be the first to tell you that I have no idea what the fuck is going on, and my butt hole stinks as bad as any other. If anything, it's you lot that can't conceive of uncertainty.

Well it's not my fault you fell into one of those retarded Protestant traps where they kept harping on and on about the end times. Catholicism for all its faults still regards that as the retarded heresy it is. It's fun to do and gets people really hyped up but it's barely fucking canonical.

Was Emperor Constantine a Protestant, then?

Practically. The revelations were only cannon because it was part of the secret uprising against the empire. It was used to signal amongst slaves. Nobody regards them as a harbinger of doom in any serious manner anymore and really hasn't for nearly a thousand years. If you want to get wrapped up about them go ahead. I mean they are still applicable anyway, despite the span of.... actually more like 1.8k years or something since some hermit submitted one of his insane works. It's not like that they are valueless. Mark of the beast etc all still applicable. Boring trying to guess when the world ends. To hear you idiots it ends every presidential election.

[SuburbanFarmer]

If the future is determined, then you, me, and 7 billion others have no control over their own minds.

That's doesn't even make sense. Supposing it did, and just by knowing what you would do that negates free will (pro tip: how the fuck does that work you fuzz brain????) Then how do you know God isn't waiting for someone to break his machine just to see if it could happen?

You want to waste your potential to help him with a science experiment? I've got other things to do.

As for 'how it works', look up Determinism, for a start. Or, a thought experiment: If God can see the future, then he already knew that a creation of his would grab Mommy's gun, and murder a bunch of elementary schoolers. Therefore, the murderer never had a choice - his action was pre-determined, he was simply going through the motions, along with the rest of us. Does he deserve punishment then?

At the very least, you have to concede that there is absolutely no active hand in our daily lives. Therefore, why bother asking for healing, or safety? There are no atheists in a foxhole. Yet, any foxhole can catch an artillery shell, regardless of prayer intensity.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Well it's not my fault you fell into one of those retarded Protestant traps where they kept harping on and on about the end times. Catholicism for all its faults still regards that as the retarded heresy it is. It's fun to do and gets people really hyped up but it's barely fucking canonical.

Was Emperor Constantine a Protestant, then?

Practically. The revelations were only cannon because it was part of the secret uprising against the empire. It was used to signal amongst slaves. Nobody regards them as a harbinger of doom in any serious manner anymore and really hasn't for nearly a thousand years. If you want to get wrapped up about them go ahead. I mean they are still applicable anyway, despite the span of.... actually more like 1.8k years or something since some hermit submitted one of his insane works. It's not like that they are valueless. Mark of the beast etc all still applicable. Boring trying to guess when the world ends. To hear you idiots it ends every presidential election.

Same story for the book of Daniel then, right? When was that written again?

[TheReal_ND]

At the very least, you have to concede that there is absolutely no active hand in our daily lives

Nobody except Jesus said there was you stupid nigger.

[Okeefenokee]

It's very simple.

If I have free will, then any choice that I make cannot be predicted in advance by an outside power. If 7 billion of us have free will, then there is no conceivable way that anything is predictable in advance - at least not more than overall trends on the global scale.

The only way that outcomes can be predictable is without random factors.

Like I said, some people have a real hard time coming to terms with the fact that they aren't God.

Grumps here thinks that what he knows is all that can be known. If he can't know it, then God can't know it.

He thinks, because he can only exist in point in time, then God is the same. See how he used to word predict? A prediction is how a mortal interacts with a forward point in time. For a mortal, the future is place that hasn't been reached yet. Grumps is assuming that an omnipotent eternal being is locked into one point in time, not only that, but he thinks God must be locked into the same point in time that he occupies.

How's that for hubris?

If I can see the future, then that future is already determined. If the future is determined, then you, me, and 7 billion others have no control over their own minds. If that's the case, then throw open the jails, and abandon personal responsibility.

Or, just wave your hand at it, and feel superior. /shrug

You

are

not

God.

When you see a chair, you are observing a point in space that you don't occupy. At that moment, there is a point, one point, in space that you occupy. If you could see the future, you would be seeing a point in time that you don't occupy. You would have to wait until that time came in order to occupy it, and then you would no longer occupy the point in time where were when you saw the future.

This is the condition of a mortal that can only occupy one point in time and space. You are assuming that your experience is the same as God's, that because you can only be in one point in time and space, then God must also be so limited. You are assuming that what God knows about your future is what He sees, implying that He can only observe somewhere that He isn't from somewhere He is, as though He is just as locked in time as you are, and that He's locked into the same time that you are.

[TheReal_ND]

Was Emperor Constantine a Protestant, then?

Practically. The revelations were only cannon because it was part of the secret uprising against the empire. It was used to signal amongst slaves. Nobody regards them as a harbinger of doom in any serious manner anymore and really hasn't for nearly a thousand years. If you want to get wrapped up about them go ahead. I mean they are still applicable anyway, despite the span of.... actually more like 1.8k years or something since some hermit submitted one of his insane works. It's not like that they are valueless. Mark of the beast etc all still applicable. Boring trying to guess when the world ends. To hear you idiots it ends every presidential election.

Same story for the book of Daniel then, right? When was that written again?

What about it? Some jews figured out there is a higher power and told everyone it gave them the right to genocide entire tribes and cut the tip off little baby dicks and throw them into a volcano to power up thier divine intervention levels. Wow. I guess that means God doesn't exist. Well played. Idiot

[SuburbanFarmer]

Like I said, some people have a real hard time coming to terms with the fact that they aren't God.

Grumps here thinks that what he knows is all that can be known. If he can't know it, then God can't know it.

He thinks, because he can only exist in point in time, then God is the same. See how he used to word predict? A prediction is how a mortal interacts with a forward point in time. For a mortal, the future is place that hasn't been reached yet. Grumps is assuming that an omnipotent eternal being is locked into one point in time, not only that, but he thinks God must be locked into the same point in time that he occupies.

How's that for hubris?

If I can see the future, then that future is already determined. If the future is determined, then you, me, and 7 billion others have no control over their own minds. If that's the case, then throw open the jails, and abandon personal responsibility.

Or, just wave your hand at it, and feel superior. /shrug

You

are

not

God.

When you see a chair, you are observing a point in space that you don't occupy. At that moment, there is a point, one point, in space that you occupy. If you could see the future, you would be seeing a point in time that you don't occupy. You would have to wait until that time came in order to occupy it, and then you would no longer occupy the point in time where were when you saw the future.

This is the condition of a mortal that can only occupy one point in time and space. You are assuming that your experience is the same as God's, that because you can only be in one point in time and space, then God must also be so limited. You are assuming that what God knows about your future is what He sees, implying that He can only observe somewhere that He isn't from somewhere He is, as though he is just as locked in time as you are, and that he's locked into the same time that you are.

No, I understand completely. All timelines happening simultaneously.

Looking at that chair (call it the Chair of Sin), I can see everyone that will sit in it, ever, right? But now that I know that, do they still have a choice to sit or not sit in it? Since the event has already happened, do I wait for them to sit in it before yelling at them, or do I just do it pre-emptively? Do I move the chair out of the way, to prevent them sitting in it, or leave it there, and then blame them for sitting there?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Practically. The revelations were only cannon because it was part of the secret uprising against the empire. It was used to signal amongst slaves. Nobody regards them as a harbinger of doom in any serious manner anymore and really hasn't for nearly a thousand years. If you want to get wrapped up about them go ahead. I mean they are still applicable anyway, despite the span of.... actually more like 1.8k years or something since some hermit submitted one of his insane works. It's not like that they are valueless. Mark of the beast etc all still applicable. Boring trying to guess when the world ends. To hear you idiots it ends every presidential election.

Same story for the book of Daniel then, right? When was that written again?

What about it? Some jews figured out there is a higher power and told everyone it gave them the right to genocide entire tribes and cut the tip off little baby dicks and throw them into a volcano to power up thier divine intervention levels. Wow. I guess that means God doesn't exist. Well played. Idiot

You clearly haven't read that one.

[SuburbanFarmer]

At the very least, you have to concede that there is absolutely no active hand in our daily lives

Nobody except Jesus said there was you stupid nigger.

Welp, since he's the basis of Christianity, that does lead one to think that it may apply to the religion, but I guess you can disregard anything you wish. Christians are singularly proficient at editing their beliefs to fit the situation at hand.