The Psych Ward: The Shadow

[Speaker to Animals]

It's been a while since I read Jung, but denying human nature didn't seem like his intent. My recollection of his description of the shadow (this was his concept) was that we create and empower this thing precisely by denying our nature. Insomuch as you banish certain thoughts and desires from your concsiousness, you create a space for them in the unconsciousness, which is your shadow. The shadow is that part of the whole self you deny, which can manifest in times of stress or turmoil. The better strategy is to stop trying to banish thoughts. Integrate them and deal with them rationally.

It's been a while, though, so perhaps I misremember it. The shadow is not a demon. It's just the part of you your conscious mind will not allow or accept.

I'm not sure whether it's repression, or healthy, but I have random shameful thoughts from my past pop up all the time. I'll be driving or something, and some embarrassing incident from 20 years ago comes into my head, and I have to force it out - usually by groaning at myself, or something.

Maybe I'm feeding my shadow with it somehow, or I'm processing it healthily. Who knows. Point is, we can't deny that the stupidest things that we've ever done were still "us". It wasn't some weird, other part of you - it was you. You have murder, brilliance, shame, and glory all within you. It's just a matter of the situation and your mindset at the moment.

From a Jungian perspective, you shouldn't force it out. You should just deal with it. Process it. Make rational sense of it and move on.

From a religious sense, and I know you don't want to hear this, but you should consider it, the enemy sometimes throws thoughts from your past to humiliate you, tempt you, or cause pain to you. It's usually connected to something good you are about to do, are doing, or possibly some good or bad impact you can have upon another person that they can influence one way or the other.

There are ways of dealing with that, and it goes away if you do it when that is what is happening.

The other stuff, all those impulses and thoughts you banish.. you can't just do that. The moment you find yourself refusing to think something or process it out of fear of social shaming, moral guilt, etc., you have to stop. Instead of running from it and locking it away, just step back from it and analyze it objectively. You have a conscious mind for a reason and should use it. The shadow exists because people don't use consciousness out of fear or various impulses and thoughts.

That doesn't mean you entertain temptation either. Just don't banish it. Deal with it.

[SuburbanFarmer]

It's been a while since I read Jung, but denying human nature didn't seem like his intent. My recollection of his description of the shadow (this was his concept) was that we create and empower this thing precisely by denying our nature. Insomuch as you banish certain thoughts and desires from your concsiousness, you create a space for them in the unconsciousness, which is your shadow. The shadow is that part of the whole self you deny, which can manifest in times of stress or turmoil. The better strategy is to stop trying to banish thoughts. Integrate them and deal with them rationally.

It's been a while, though, so perhaps I misremember it. The shadow is not a demon. It's just the part of you your conscious mind will not allow or accept.

I'm not sure whether it's repression, or healthy, but I have random shameful thoughts from my past pop up all the time. I'll be driving or something, and some embarrassing incident from 20 years ago comes into my head, and I have to force it out - usually by groaning at myself, or something.

Maybe I'm feeding my shadow with it somehow, or I'm processing it healthily. Who knows. Point is, we can't deny that the stupidest things that we've ever done were still "us". It wasn't some weird, other part of you - it was you. You have murder, brilliance, shame, and glory all within you. It's just a matter of the situation and your mindset at the moment.

From a Jungian perspective, you shouldn't force it out. You should just deal with it. Process it. Make rational sense of it and move on.

From a religious sense, and I know you don't want to hear this, but you should consider it, the enemy sometimes throws thoughts from your past to humiliate you, tempt you, or cause pain to you. It's usually connected to something good you are about to do, are doing, or possibly some good or bad impact you can have upon another person that they can influence one way or the other.

There are ways of dealing with that, and it goes away if you do it when that is what is happening.

The other stuff, all those impulses and thoughts you banish.. you can't just do that. The moment you find yourself refusing to think something or process it out of fear of social shaming, moral guilt, etc., you have to stop. Instead of running from it and locking it away, just step back from it and analyze it objectively. You have a conscious mind for a reason and should use it. The shadow exists because people don't use consciousness out of fear or various impulses and thoughts.

That doesn't mean you entertain temptation either. Just don't banish it. Deal with it.

yeah, I've never quite understood that bit. "Processing" is pretty vague. I feel plenty of embarrassment over whatever it was, and I can understand what was probably in my head at the time, but there's nothing else to think about it, really.

As for impulses and thoughts - yeah, I've learned not to just 'hang it out there' socially, lol. Probably a result of my weird upbringing. I was incredibly naive going into high-school, and it took me years to learn how to almost 'fit in'. I still don't do well in crowds, or with strangers. I have to figure people out before I can relax around them, and I still slip up and say dumb shit from time to time. It's a lifelong struggle, on some level.

[DrYouth]

This is what I was bringing up to you in another thread, Doc. Your profession pathologically denies human nature, expecting on some level for people to fit into a very modern 'ideal'. Docile, happy, emotionally calm... These are not what we are, unless something is very wrong.

Well you're right and you're wrong.

My profession includes a wide range of approaches.

You're right that in the current "medical model" of psychiatry we try to fix "shadow" impulses with pills... creating a form of chemical "repression" to bring people back to "docile, happy, calm" places... and this can backfire wildly... i.e. mass murderers taking anti-depressants.

You're wrong in that our modern psychiatry was in fact founded on principles of "integrating" impulses rather than repressing them.... a.k.a. Freud and Jung...

But we have lost our way... many in the modern fields of psychology and psychiatry dismiss these old masters as quacks... and speak a bunch of modern quack-speak in it's stead.

I think Jung got it right... Freud had a lot of it right... but felt threatened by Jung... because Freud hadn't dealt with his own shadow...

[Speaker to Animals]

I'm not sure whether it's repression, or healthy, but I have random shameful thoughts from my past pop up all the time. I'll be driving or something, and some embarrassing incident from 20 years ago comes into my head, and I have to force it out - usually by groaning at myself, or something.

Maybe I'm feeding my shadow with it somehow, or I'm processing it healthily. Who knows. Point is, we can't deny that the stupidest things that we've ever done were still "us". It wasn't some weird, other part of you - it was you. You have murder, brilliance, shame, and glory all within you. It's just a matter of the situation and your mindset at the moment.

From a Jungian perspective, you shouldn't force it out. You should just deal with it. Process it. Make rational sense of it and move on.

From a religious sense, and I know you don't want to hear this, but you should consider it, the enemy sometimes throws thoughts from your past to humiliate you, tempt you, or cause pain to you. It's usually connected to something good you are about to do, are doing, or possibly some good or bad impact you can have upon another person that they can influence one way or the other.

There are ways of dealing with that, and it goes away if you do it when that is what is happening.

The other stuff, all those impulses and thoughts you banish.. you can't just do that. The moment you find yourself refusing to think something or process it out of fear of social shaming, moral guilt, etc., you have to stop. Instead of running from it and locking it away, just step back from it and analyze it objectively. You have a conscious mind for a reason and should use it. The shadow exists because people don't use consciousness out of fear or various impulses and thoughts.

That doesn't mean you entertain temptation either. Just don't banish it. Deal with it.

yeah, I've never quite understood that bit. "Processing" is pretty vague. I feel plenty of embarrassment over whatever it was, and I can understand what was probably in my head at the time, but there's nothing else to think about it, really.

As for impulses and thoughts - yeah, I've learned not to just 'hang it out there' socially, lol. Probably a result of my weird upbringing. I was incredibly naive going into high-school, and it took me years to learn how to almost 'fit in'. I still don't do well in crowds, or with strangers. I have to figure people out before I can relax around them, and I still slip up and say dumb shit from time to time. It's a lifelong struggle, on some level.

Think of it as cogitating, and imagine cogitating as similar to chewing food, but instead you are chewing thoughts in your conscious mind. Your mind will suddenly fill with thoughts or impulses you find distasteful. So you spit it out like you would spit out food that tastes bad. Except, unlike food, nothing in your mind can really be expelled from your being. All you really do is banish it from your consciousness. So it just builds up in your unconscious. That's what the shadow is. All the stuff you refused to cogitate out of fear, distaste, moral revulsion, etc.

Cogitation doesn't have to mean entertainment. Most people think like they eat. They only want to think about things that bring them pleasure, and they "spit out" the thoughts that bring them displeasure. In the case of temptation and evil thoughts, cogitating them does not mean you fantasize about carrying out the temptation, desire, or thought. You step back from it and look at it objectively. Why are you thinking this? What impulse gives rise to it? Just look at it in such a way that the tempting aspects are neutered. For instance, in sexual temptation, one ancient stoic philosopher said he would think of women as bags of blood, gore, with shit in their intestines, and whatnot. He would look at human beings as they are. It's a way of stepping back from the temptation itself and analyzing the thought without banishing it. Because I promise you, banishing sexual temptation all the time without cogitating it is going to result in you acting out when the opportunity arises.

[SuburbanFarmer]

This is what I was bringing up to you in another thread, Doc. Your profession pathologically denies human nature, expecting on some level for people to fit into a very modern 'ideal'. Docile, happy, emotionally calm... These are not what we are, unless something is very wrong.

Well you're right and you're wrong.

My profession includes a wide range of approaches.

You're right that in the current "medical model" of psychiatry we try to fix "shadow" impulses with pills... creating a form of chemical "repression" to bring people back to "docile, happy, calm" places... and this can backfire wildly... i.e. mass murderers taking anti-depressants.

You're wrong in that psychiatry was founded on principles of "integrating" impulses rather than repressing them.... a.k.a. Freud and Jung...

But we have lost our way... many in the modern fields of psychology and psychiatry dismiss these old masters as quacks... and speak a bunch of modern quack-speak in it's stead.

I think Jung got it right... Freud had a lot of it right... but felt threatened by Jung... because Freud hadn't dealt with his own shadow...

I think we're on the same page. I can't really speak to the history of psychology - definitely not a subject that I'm versed in. I was referring to the modern quackery of shoving pills at depressed people. They've kind of ruined my mother's life with that stuff. Seeing what she's become, I've sworn off any of it. My brother went the other way, followed the recommended path, and he's a bit of a loony toon now, as well.

I'm sure that there are people like yourself trying to 'do it right', but the whole thing just looks like a criminal enterprise, at this point.

[DrYouth]

I have to figure people out before I can relax around them, and I still slip up and say dumb shit from time to time. It's a lifelong struggle, on some level.

It IS a lifelong struggle!

And owning our shadow is acknowledging that... Denying it is pretending it doesn't exist and hiding it even from ourselves ... Whereas Shame is hiding it from everyone out of fear of rejection...

Shame and Denial are both efforts (conscious and unconscious) to hide our flaws... in which case we can not learn anything.

Courage is admitting them, which allows us to learn from our mistakes.

[DrYouth]

So I guess SJW's sell shame...

Whereas anti-SJWs prefer denial over shame... given the massive problems associated with shame.

Integration is not on offer by many... other than perhaps Bollelli and Cooper...

But I'll wait to hear the episodes before I can say for sure... Cooper sure did a great job on the Israel/Palestine series...

But that didn't involve American Troops.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I have to figure people out before I can relax around them, and I still slip up and say dumb shit from time to time. It's a lifelong struggle, on some level.

It IS a lifelong struggle!

And owning our shadow is acknowledging that... Denying it is pretending it doesn't exist and hiding it even from ourselves ... Whereas Shame is hiding it from everyone out of fear of rejection...

Shame and Denial are both efforts (conscious and unconscious) to hide our flaws... in which case we can not learn anything.

Courage is admitting them, which allows us to learn from our mistakes.

Well I guess I'm doing good at that, then.

I think a lot of the 'introvert/extrovert' divide could be explained by which of those coping mechanisms the person is using. Either denying it, and embracing arrogance, or shaming oneself into hiding from the world.

Maybe that's why I'm drawn to self-effacing people that admit they just said/did something dumb, and come right out with it. Seems a healthier way to live, for sure. I've tried to integrate that into myself, but it depends on who I'm around.

[DrYouth]

I think a lot of the 'introvert/extrovert' divide could be explained by which of those coping mechanisms the person is using. Either denying it, and embracing arrogance, or shaming oneself into hiding from the world.

Yes... I would agree with this.

Maybe that's why I'm drawn to self-effacing people that admit they just said/did something dumb, and come right out with it. Seems a healthier way to live, for sure. I've tried to integrate that into myself, but it depends on who I'm around.

I admit that I started off attracted to confidence and "don't give a shitness"...
My circle of friends were cocky and prone to causing and getting into trouble.

My wife's friends, when we met, were mostly introverts and sensitive souls....

I used to joke about the "Bizarro world" episode of Seinfeld... where Elaine meets the opposites of Jerry, George and Kramer.

It proves our trajectories in marriage has been about growing to the centre and meeting there...

It hasn't been an easy road... I've had to confront "The Shadow" more than once.

[Haumana]

Have you seen the movie "Babadook?"


https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_babadook/

"Six years after the violent death of her husband, Amelia (Essie Davis) is at a loss. She struggles to discipline her 'out of control' 6 year-old, Samuel (Noah Wiseman), a son she finds impossible to love. Samuel's dreams are plagued by a monster he believes is coming to kill them both. When a disturbing storybook called 'The Babadook' turns up at their house, Samuel is convinced that the Babadook is the creature he's been dreaming about. His hallucinations spiral out of control, he becomes more unpredictable and violent. Amelia, genuinely frightened by her son's behaviour, is forced to medicate him. But when Amelia begins to see glimpses of a sinister presence all around her, it slowly dawns on her that the thing Samuel has been warning her about may be real. (C) IFC