1016 Shadow Revolt

[Martin Hash]

Elon Musk doesn't do things to get rich: that's just a side effect. He lives a frugal live-style and strives for more accomplishments, not money. His heirs couldn't replace him, nor should they: his stockholders deserve the most meritorious person possible to move into those shoes: probably an unrich person.

[DBTrek]

I really have to question your judgment if you would chase money over accomplishments? And why would you want to instill listlessness in your heirs? It's like you've never thought this through?

It's not the governments job to encourage me to pursue money or accomplishments. The whole "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" thing means people get to choose to pursue whatever makes them happy, and the government doesn't interfere. That's actual liberty, not some weird-ass Marxist-lite version, popular with academics.

But since we're speculating on what the other has not thought through - I imagine you haven't thought much about about balancing power. Government, hands down, has killed tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions more people than billionaires ever have. So from a simple humanitarian perspective, any plan that further empowers and enriches government under the guise of "saving us from billionaires" is an obvious and transparent boondoggle. We don't need saving from billionaires, we need saving from government and those who feel they "know better" and would wield government's power against us. By ... you know, coming up with cockamamie wealth restriction plots and such.

The Second Amendment allows people to arm themselves against tyranny militarily.
Property rights allow families to do the same financially.
Quite trying to disarm individuals and leave them powerless before the state.

[Martin Hash]

You’re on the Fascist side of State vs. Aristocracy battle, I get it. I was not an heir so my success was predicated on the state but I guess you have a rich uncle you’re waiting to die?

[DBTrek]

No, just a poor kid who scrabbled their way to middle class and is set to inherit nothing.

You can call me a fascist all day, but everyone else just sees some rich OWG who thinks American's ability to transfer wealth should be capped at what they were able to make and no more.

(And you're willing to use government force to get your way - so ... who's the fascist really?)

[Smitty-48]

(who's the fascist really?)

the Fasci de Combattimento or "Fighting Leagues"

there were four main pillars of Fascism

Anticapitalist : they favoured state run corporations, confiscation of private property

Anticlericist : they opposed the clergy of the Roman Catholic church, the social mores of Christianity

Antidemocratic : using force to overthrow elections, legislating from the streets

Imperialist : seeking to restore the glory of a bygone empire, militaristic praetorianism

[DBTrek]

Fascism seems to have an ever-shifting definition - but all definitions seem to agree that corporatism and government are key factors.

So maybe a simpler way of phrasing my point (tho I didn't really think I was talking over anyone's head) is this:

My Plan: "People should be able to earn as much as they can and pass it to their heirs"
Amount of government required: Zero
Amount of corporations required: Zero

MH Plan: "The government should confiscate any assets in excess of $10M from citizens when they die"
Amount of government required: 100%
Amount of corporations required: Zero

So, if fascism includes aspects of both government and corporations, as common definitions agree - my position contains zero elements of either.

MH is at least half fascist tho, by virtue of his own plan requiring at least one of the elements of fascism, to my zero.
/shrug

[StCapps]

Rich people didn't build America, and they aren't more capable than people who aren't rich. Winning the lottery is NOT an accomplishment.

I really have to question your judgment if you would chase money over accomplishments? And why would you want to instill listlessness in your heirs? It's like you've never thought this through?

if the heirs are listless, then so much for aristocracy

you undermine your own argument, being rich does not ensure you will stay rich and the statistics back this up

your Marxist vision of the rich getting lucky and becoming a permanent entrenched aristocracy isn't backed up by the facts

it's an oppressor vs oppressed delusion

[Smitty-48]

Fascism seems to have an ever-shifting definition

it retains certain characteristics

OWS morphing into Antifa, that's nascent Fighting Leagues

the Woke religion supplanting Christianity, there's the anticlericism

the merger of state & corporations, such as Big Tech & MSM seizing control

and the MICC permanent overseas military adventure for its own sake, praetorianism

[DBTrek]

Fascism seems to have an ever-shifting definition

it retains certain characteristics

OWS morphing into Antifa, that's nascent Fighting Leagues

the Woke religion supplanting Christianity, there's the anticlericism

the merger of state & corporations, such as Big Tech & MSM seizing control

and the MICC permanent overseas military adventure for its own sake, praetorianism

You make a strong case, and I oppose all those things.
But apparently that doesn't free me of the "fascist" label from MH, which is increasingly more like the "racist" label from Dems.
It turns out you can't just disagree with people anymore - you have to be some kind of authoritarian or bigot if you oppose someone's idea.

[Martin Hash]

People are supportive of what works for them: liberty worked for me; opportunity enabled by the state because I had no nepotistic connections. If your family, church, fraternity has your back then you probably prefer Fascism.