Plutarch on animal ethics

[Fife]

[JohnDonne]

Indeed, humans and other animals are made of meat and nerves, brains, eyes and hearts. It doesn't matter how many legs there are, what type of fur, we all possess the ability to desire to live, we are all conscious and capable of suffering.

Hunting is the same as any action, when there is a victim, there must be a justification, but of course, there is no justification, it's no accident, it's no necessity, it's premeditated killing for fun. And this blood lust is passed onto children that otherwise wouldn't dream of killing beautiful deer.

[Speaker to Animals]

Vegetables require animal life as well.

[Fife]

I don't wanna be your buddy, Rick. I just want a little breakfast.

[heydaralon]

Indeed, humans and other animals are made of meat and nerves, brains, eyes and hearts. It doesn't matter how many legs there are, what type of fur, we all possess the ability to desire to live, we are all conscious and capable of suffering.

Hunting is the same as any action, when there is a victim, there must be a justification, but of course, there is no justification, it's no accident, it's no necessity, it's premeditated killing for fun. And this blood lust is passed onto children that otherwise wouldn't dream of killing beautiful deer.

How hard was it to tell your parents you are gay?

[Smitty-48]

We're having hot Italian sausage on a bun off the grill.

Juicy and delicious.

$9 for 9, enough for my wife to make her sausage pasta sauce which the old Italian lady taught her to make.

[StCapps]

Indeed, humans and other animals are made of meat and nerves, brains, eyes and hearts. It doesn't matter how many legs there are, what type of fur, we all possess the ability to desire to live, we are all conscious and capable of suffering.

Hunting is the same as any action, when there is a victim, there must be a justification, but of course, there is no justification, it's no accident, it's no necessity, it's premeditated killing for fun. And this blood lust is passed onto children that otherwise wouldn't dream of killing beautiful deer.

There is justification for hunting quite often, the animals desire to not be killed does not override all justifications for killing animals. Deer overpopulate, culling them is doing a favor to the other deer, so they don't starve to death, or eat food needed to feed other animals than just deer. Hunting is often of benefit to the environment, the ecosystem and the animals.

Pretending the sole justification used for hunting is, blood lust for entertainment, that just shows that you know nothing about hunting, and are out to demonize hunters.

[JohnDonne]

Vegetables require animal life as well.

If you're comparing hunting to industrial plant and grain agriculture, you're comparing two different scales.

Hunting would be the equivalent of gathering wild edibles. No animals are killed in gathering wild edibles. Hunting requires premeditated killing though. But neither practice would be sustainable for a country of 350 million people.

Pasture raised beef would, in terms of scale, be the equivalent of a small organic vegan farm. Note that grass fed cows actually step on small animals all the time. And from the perspective of environmental costs, grass fed beef is less sustainable than factory meat in terms of carbon footprint, water and land use. It also requires premeditated killing. A vegan organic farm requires no premeditated killing and can be done without harvesting machines. It is more sustainable and kills fewer, if any animals at all.

Factory farm meat would be the equivalent of industrial grain and plant agriculture. But we know that factory farming requires scales of magnitude more industrially grown grains and plants than just feeding the plants and grains to people, so any criticism of veganism on accidental killings during harvesting just puts the criticism back onto the factory meat by an order of magnitude.

We could actually feed nearly every starving human on earth, with the food that's fed to animals in the U.S. alone.

On every scale of food production veganism is the way to go in terms of compassion, environmental sustainability, resource use, etc.

[Speaker to Animals]

No. I am talking about biology and soil science. Those carrots you ate were a product of soil decomposition, which always has animal life somewhere in the chain.

To be truly vegan, you literally have to grow food in hydroponic greenhouses, using industrial fertilizer in the water.

Nature is one big system, kiddo. LOL

[JohnDonne]

Indeed, humans and other animals are made of meat and nerves, brains, eyes and hearts. It doesn't matter how many legs there are, what type of fur, we all possess the ability to desire to live, we are all conscious and capable of suffering.

Hunting is the same as any action, when there is a victim, there must be a justification, but of course, there is no justification, it's no accident, it's no necessity, it's premeditated killing for fun. And this blood lust is passed onto children that otherwise wouldn't dream of killing beautiful deer.

There is justification for hunting quite often, the animals desire to not be killed does not override all justifications for killing animals. Deer overpopulate, culling them is doing a favor to the other deer, so they don't starve to death, or eat food needed to feed other animals than just deer. Hunting is often of benefit to the environment, the ecosystem and the animals.

Pretending the sole justification used for hunting is, blood lust for entertainment, that just shows that you know nothing about hunting, and are out to demonize hunters.

I'm not out to demonize hunters, but they're obviously in it for bloodlust. If hunters are all about conservation, why aren't they agitating for animal vasectomies as opposed to culling, when vasectomies are more effective long term?

Keep in mind that animal overpopulation is of a piece with meat eating. It is the result of cattle ranchers and farmers lobbying for the government to kill/nearly extinct predators for the sake of the meat industry. If there was no meat industry, predators would be allowed to roam free and undoubtedly animal populations would become more stable.