Productivity Leads To Liberty

[Speaker to Animals]

The salient intellectual experiment is to imagine the pre-Enlightenment social and economic systems with our present technology.

Would people be freer? Probably not. Would they be happier? Probably.

Like I said before, if you want extreme individualism, then you need to just suck it up and join Sauron and his all-embracing centralized state. The two go hand-in-hand.

If you want to be a reactionary, then you have to embrace social and community duties and obligations.

R U saying slavery gets an undeserved bad rap.

I am saying slavery is pretty fucking horrible.

Are we talking about pre-Enlightenment European society where slavery was outlawed or no?

Slavery. Nationalism. All that shit began with Locke, Hobbes, et. al., and their Jacobin allies in France. It was liberty, equality, fraternity snobs the Haitian slaves revolted against and murdered in their sleep.

[Martin Hash]

If you were somehow able to qualitatively normalize the impact of technological progress on our quality of life, I think the pre-Revolutionary farmer is objectively better off than the modern wage slave.

Lot of romance in that supposition...

I'd say the same about the opposing opinion, dude.. I am realistic. I am not saying it was utopia. I am just pointing out that at no time were suicide rates this high. At no time were so many people leading fruitless and helpless lives as they are today.

It's not technology that's the problem. It's the people themselves. Their values. Their mindset.

So trading fuzzy thinking & mystical explanations for wisdom & science was a net negative?

[Speaker to Animals]

Lot of romance in that supposition...

I'd say the same about the opposing opinion, dude.. I am realistic. I am not saying it was utopia. I am just pointing out that at no time were suicide rates this high. At no time were so many people leading fruitless and helpless lives as they are today.

It's not technology that's the problem. It's the people themselves. Their values. Their mindset.

So trading fuzzy thinking & mystical explanations for wisdom & science was a net negative?

Now you are just straw manning. Do you want to actually debate this?

[Martin Hash]

Slavery began the second one person was stronger than another.

People thought the world was flat for 1000s of years.

If you were born poor, you stayed poor.

"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin" was a deep thought.

People never left their village.

No one could read.

If revisionism was real, there'd be whole States filled with Luddites.

[Speaker to Animals]

Slavery was outlawed in medieval Europe, Martin.

[Martin Hash]

Slavery was outlawed in medieval Europe, Martin.

R U kidding? There's still slavery today. Google it.

[Speaker to Animals]

Slavery was outlawed in medieval Europe, Martin.

R U kidding? There's still slavery today. Google it.

Are we debating the qualitative difference between pre-modern and post-modern society, Martin? Because before Enlightenment, slavery was outlawed. You needed the centralized state to make that work.

And, yeah, if you want to get metaphorical about it, we have slavery today. Walmart enjoys all the benefits of slavery without any obligation to actually take care of people. Hence the suicide rate.

[Martin Hash]

I won't debate the idea that working at Walmart is equivalent to slavery.

Liberty lets you move to Belieze & hire your own slaves. What R U still doing here?

[Speaker to Animals]

You're all over the place to avoid defending what you stated.

[Martin Hash]

Dude, you've already made it clear you're an enemy of individual liberty. Read the title of the thread. Start your own anti-liberty thread.