The Religion Discussion Thread

[TheReal_ND]

Revelations were never in play dingus. Only you feeble minded idiots forget that we know not the time or the place. They've been in play for two millennia. Who said God is trying to figure out the future anyway? Just because he is supposed to have known what you will do, do you let that influence your choice? What if he's hoping you will make a different one and by some divine miracle you quit worshipping your own butt hole and opened yourself up to the possibility that you don't know what the fuck is going on?

[Speaker to Animals]

It doesn't follow. How does God's knowledge of what you will choose negate your free will?

If he already knows what I'll choose, then how can I be responsible for that choice, and punished for it? That would take a truly sadistic being to set billions of his creations up for failure intentionally.

You are responsible because it was your choice.

God exists outside of time. To him it all happens as one thing. He doesn't experience time as we do. But that has no bearing on whether you possess free will.

[SuburbanFarmer]

It doesn't follow. How does God's knowledge of what you will choose negate your free will?

If he already knows what I'll choose, then how can I be responsible for that choice, and punished for it? That would take a truly sadistic being to set billions of his creations up for failure intentionally.

You are responsible because it was your choice.

God exists outside of time. To him it all happens as one thing. He doesn't experience time as we do. But that has no bearing on whether you possess free will.

You can hand-wave all you wish, but there are only 2 possibilities.

[Okeefenokee]

If he already knows what I’ll chose, then I never had a choice to begin with. Otherwise, it could not be known.

How does that work? I just don't see that conclusion. If you can't explain it and we just disagree, /point and continue with other avenues.

It's very simple.

If I have free will, then any choice that I make cannot be predicted in advance by an outside power. If 7 billion of us have free will, then there is no conceivable way that anything is predictable in advance - at least not more than overall trends on the global scale.

The only way that outcomes can be predictable is without random factors.

Like I said, some people have a real hard time coming to terms with the fact that they aren't God.

Grumps here thinks that what he knows is all that can be known. If he can't know it, then God can't know it.

He thinks, because he can only exist in point in time, then God is the same. See how he used to word predict? A prediction is how a mortal interacts with a forward point in time. For a mortal, the future is place that hasn't been reached yet. Grumps is assuming that an omnipotent eternal being is locked into one point in time, not only that, but he thinks God must be locked into the same point in time that he occupies.

How's that for hubris?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Revelations were never in play dingus. Only you feeble minded idiots forget that we know not the time or the place. They've been in play for two millennia. Who said God is trying to figure out the future anyway? Just because he is supposed to have known what you will do, do you let that influence your choice? What if he's hoping you will make a different one and by some divine miracle you quit worshipping your own butt hole and opened yourself up to the possibility that you don't know what the fuck is going on?

Well, since we were 'in the final days' around 2,000 years ago, and ever since, one begins to wonder how long you'll wait for that ship to come in..

I'll be the first to tell you that I have no idea what the fuck is going on, and my butt hole stinks as bad as any other. If anything, it's you lot that can't conceive of uncertainty.

[Okeefenokee]

If he already knows what I'll choose, then how can I be responsible for that choice, and punished for it? That would take a truly sadistic being to set billions of his creations up for failure intentionally.

You are responsible because it was your choice.

God exists outside of time. To him it all happens as one thing. He doesn't experience time as we do. But that has no bearing on whether you possess free will.

You can hand-wave all you wish, but there are only 2 possibilities.

You ain't no Sith, just dense.

[SuburbanFarmer]

How does that work? I just don't see that conclusion. If you can't explain it and we just disagree, /point and continue with other avenues.

It's very simple.

If I have free will, then any choice that I make cannot be predicted in advance by an outside power. If 7 billion of us have free will, then there is no conceivable way that anything is predictable in advance - at least not more than overall trends on the global scale.

The only way that outcomes can be predictable is without random factors.

Like I said, some people have a real hard time coming to terms with the fact that they aren't God.

Grumps here thinks that what he knows is all that can be known. If he can't know it, then God can't know it.

He thinks, because he can only exist in point in time, then God is the same. See how he used to word predict? A prediction is how a mortal interacts with a forward point in time. For a mortal, the future is place that hasn't been reached yet. Grumps is assuming that an omnipotent eternal being is locked into one point in time, not only that, but he thinks God must be locked into the same point in time that he occupies.

How's that for hubris?

If I can see the future, then that future is already determined. If the future is determined, then you, me, and 7 billion others have no control over their own minds. If that's the case, then throw open the jails, and abandon personal responsibility.

Or, just wave your hand at it, and feel superior. /shrug

[TheReal_ND]

Revelations were never in play dingus. Only you feeble minded idiots forget that we know not the time or the place. They've been in play for two millennia. Who said God is trying to figure out the future anyway? Just because he is supposed to have known what you will do, do you let that influence your choice? What if he's hoping you will make a different one and by some divine miracle you quit worshipping your own butt hole and opened yourself up to the possibility that you don't know what the fuck is going on?

Well, since we were 'in the final days' around 2,000 years ago, and ever since, one begins to wonder how long you'll wait for that ship to come in..

I'll be the first to tell you that I have no idea what the fuck is going on, and my butt hole stinks as bad as any other. If anything, it's you lot that can't conceive of uncertainty.

Well it's not my fault you fell into one of those retarded Protestant traps where they kept harping on and on about the end times. Catholicism for all its faults still regards that as the retarded heresy it is. It's fun to do and gets people really hyped up but it's barely fucking canonical.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Revelations were never in play dingus. Only you feeble minded idiots forget that we know not the time or the place. They've been in play for two millennia. Who said God is trying to figure out the future anyway? Just because he is supposed to have known what you will do, do you let that influence your choice? What if he's hoping you will make a different one and by some divine miracle you quit worshipping your own butt hole and opened yourself up to the possibility that you don't know what the fuck is going on?

Well, since we were 'in the final days' around 2,000 years ago, and ever since, one begins to wonder how long you'll wait for that ship to come in..

I'll be the first to tell you that I have no idea what the fuck is going on, and my butt hole stinks as bad as any other. If anything, it's you lot that can't conceive of uncertainty.

Well it's not my fault you fell into one of those retarded Protestant traps where they kept harping on and on about the end times. Catholicism for all its faults still regards that as the retarded heresy it is. It's fun to do and gets people really hyped up but it's barely fucking canonical.

Was Emperor Constantine a Protestant, then?

[TheReal_ND]

If the future is determined, then you, me, and 7 billion others have no control over their own minds.

That's doesn't even make sense. Supposing it did, and just by knowing what you would do that negates free will (pro tip: how the fuck does that work you fuzz brain????) Then how do you know God isn't waiting for someone to break his machine just to see if it could happen?